(March 21, 2012 at 12:52 am)Rhythm Wrote: LOL, why would I have to crack open a bible for that, that's a story you learn in sunday school. "Proper exegesis of scripture" is that the authors believed that Adam lived 930 years, all you're going on about now is apologetic bullshit. You outta try mustering up a little faith, stop looking for god in excuses and just believe. "We must" do nothing, but you might want to stop reading your fantasies into scripture.

It does go to show that they are conflicted. Mainstream religious folks really tend to compartmentalize their religious beliefs. They are so rational and evidence based about so many things but then have a huge blindspot for their prefered superstition. They believe evolution because the evidence is overwhelming but then they cling to religion based on faith and they try to reconcile the two! I couldn't live with that much conflict in my brain.

It's the "God cannot possibly be this stupid, because I'm not this stupid" reaction at play.

(March 20, 2012 at 7:42 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 6:46 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: So let's see if I've got this straight.

You (alone, apparently) are suggesting that the time span (in Genesis) between "In the beginning..." and "GTFO of Eden" was 5.4 billion years minus 6,000 or so?

Edit to add - ... and that during this time, the Earth and all of it's life forms evolved as they appear to have done, while inside of Eden, everything happened according to Genesis?

Pretty close!

Evidence? (with respect to Eden / Genesis)

...and, I might add, how does this "theory" of yours fit in with the alleged global flood?

(March 21, 2012 at 12:41 am)whateverist Wrote: and then the lid came off and the Christian's interest in evolution was revealed to be entirely apologetics.

we are In the Christianity section of this website what did you think my purpose was? not to mention the post you quoted was a 2nd or 3rd rehash of the original point I made...

Quote: I can respect the right of every adult to their own beliefs. So sorry to find you have only one belief and that one is wasted on the bible rather than in a wise God whose ways are beyond the understanding of mere men but whose contemplation might ennoble a man. I personally think you're missing the best part but so says one who stands beside you on the planet in no better position than yourself to know the truth. I believe the God I used to believe in was so much more worthy than the one you have locked up in the bible. It must make you feel powerful to have him under your control.

actually the contrary is true if not for the bible i could claim master of the knowledge of God. Every time i think i understand something like the doctrine of election brings me back to ground zero.

Incorporating the WHOLE of Scripture in one's understanding of God is a never ending task. If you believe the opposite to be true either you do not understand the basic premise of God or do not understand what is written in scripture. Honestly to say God is beyond the bible is indeed the easy way out. well only second to saying there is no God...

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(March 21, 2012 at 1:37 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 7:42 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 6:46 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: So let's see if I've got this straight.

You (alone, apparently) are suggesting that the time span (in Genesis) between "In the beginning..." and "GTFO of Eden" was 5.4 billion years minus 6,000 or so?

Edit to add - ... and that during this time, the Earth and all of it's life forms evolved as they appear to have done, while inside of Eden, everything happened according to Genesis?

Pretty close!

Evidence? (with respect to Eden / Genesis)

...and, I might add, how does this "theory" of yours fit in with the alleged global flood?

I am not sure what you talking about now? Can you please explain.

Explain? Seriously? How about providing the evidence you have that corroborates the Genesis narrative with reality.

Don't worry about the comment re: the alleged global flood. I was distracted a bit and the connection isn't as well-developed in my mind as I thought at first.

So let's hear your evidence.

(March 21, 2012 at 12:52 am)Rhythm Wrote:

Quote:LOL, why would I have to crack open a bible for that, that's a story you learn in sunday school. "Proper exegesis of scripture" is that the authors believed that Adam lived 930 years, all you're going on about now is apologetic bullshit.

Which is EXACTLY What I said as well, where are you confused?

Quote:"And all the days (except some other days, to the tune of billions of years as evidenced by modern science and here omitted) that Adam lived were nine-hundred thirty years; and he died" Gen5:5-Drich Expanded Version.

This is fun i am genuinely glad to see someone take such an in depth interest !!

In the Transliterated Hebrew Genesis 5:5
yowm (day, time, year)
'Adam (The First Man)
chayay (to live, have life, remain alive, sustain life, Etc...)

As Apposed to the Breath of Life God imparted into Adam upon His creation in Genesis 2:7 The Hebrew word there is
nĕshamah= breath, spirit (of God)

Obviously the life Adam lived in the beginning (Gen 2:7) was very different than the life Adam lived after the Fall (Gen 3) when God promised "For The Day You Eat Of This Forbidden Fruit You Will Surly Die."

Adam did not die in the traditional sense or our understanding of the word. Adam's Previously Privileged life was taken (The Breath of God or nĕshamah) was taken and He was sent out amongst the monkey men to live. thus beginning His 930 Chayay (life) as we understand it.

I can understand your mistake if all your working with is a sunday school memory and an english translation. If you wish to dig alittle deeper I used the, The Bullinger Critical Lexicon and Concordance if you like to look it up for yourself..

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[quote='Cthulhu Dreaming' pid='258862' dateline='1332310113']
Explain? Seriously? How about providing the evidence you have that corroborates the Genesis narrative with reality.

Don't worry about the comment re: the alleged global flood. I was distracted a bit and the connection isn't as well-developed in my mind as I thought at first.

So let's hear your evidence.

We are not discussing evidence at this point. We are discussing the plausible incorporation of the evolutionary fossil record into the creation account. That means if you are apart of this conversation then you accept (for the sake of this argument at least) the genesis account for the purposes of finding incompatibility issues with evolution.

If you wish to change topics please explain to me what "evidence" you would be looking for? What would it look like? Because any evidence you can provide, the new Genesis understanding I have provided can also claim.. So again what am I supposed to be providing to you?

Or are you just arguing a pre programed argument? I say genesis and evolution in the same post, and you warm up the old evolution argument check list. Starting with EVIDENCE!!!

If you took the time to read this thread or if you understood what is being discussed "evidence" as you know it anyway, is no long a valid goto for you. (that is why it wasn't being discussed by any of your buddies) Because Everything you can use I can use. That is why your brothers are attacking my education, me personally, my credentials, my interpretation of scripture, and even my integrity (When you can not kill the message kill the messenger right?) These are all last resort efforts. designed to extract something they can use to dismiss my efforts. Why else do you think you are the first to call for EVIDENCE in over 100 posts???

If you wish me to break my argument down further for you i would be happy to help you understand better, so you can skip the evidence part and go to attacking the messenger rather than the message like so many of your peers.

(March 21, 2012 at 1:37 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 21, 2012 at 12:41 am)whateverist Wrote: and then the lid came off and the Christian's interest in evolution was revealed to be entirely apologetics.

we are In the Christianity section of this website what did you think my purpose was?

Well there are many enlightened Christians who don't read the bible literally and so have no problem accepting evolution. So of course I hoped you were one of them. Certainly your talk of you and your fellow Christian's interest in evolution made it sound that way. Turns out you are just interested in learning enough about evolution to be able to disparage it and preserve your literal bible facts.

(March 21, 2012 at 1:37 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 21, 2012 at 12:41 am)whateverist Wrote: I can respect the right of every adult to their own beliefs. So sorry to find you have only one belief and that one is wasted on the bible rather than in a wise God whose ways are beyond the understanding of mere men but whose contemplation might ennoble a man. I personally think you're missing the best part but so says one who stands beside you on the planet in no better position than yourself to know the truth. I believe the God I used to believe in was so much more worthy than the one you have locked up in the bible. It must make you feel powerful to have him under your control.

actually the contrary is true if not for the bible i could claim master of the knowledge of God. Every time i think i understand something like the doctrine of election brings me back to ground zero.

From an outside perspective it doesn't look that way at all. It looks like you expect God to deliver on what the bible promises as if it were some kind of contract. What are you going to do if you're just plain wrong in the way you're reading the bible and therefore have it wrong about God and what He expects of you, sue Him?

(March 21, 2012 at 1:37 am)Drich Wrote: Incorporating the WHOLE of Scripture in one's understanding of God is a never ending task. If you believe the opposite to be true either you do not understand the basic premise of God or do not understand what is written in scripture. Honestly to say God is beyond the bible is indeed the easy way out. well only second to saying there is no God...

Oh I'll bet it is. A mind is a terrible thing to waste but it probably doesn't go away willingly. To give up all your own thoughts to try and adopt the facts of the bible as you understand them shows no faith at all in God. You have faith in the bible and its God, but not God Himself. You say God created you and hears you in prayer but you don't trust Him to help you read the bible in an intelligent way, as a piece of literature. It is definitely easier to interpret the bible as facts than to engage it with your whole being to understand it directly. If only you guys had any faith in yourselves perhaps you could find some for God.

(March 21, 2012 at 7:00 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

Odin GETS SHIT DONE.