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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 6:09 pm
(March 28, 2012 at 5:47 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: @oxymoron
I am on my phone so forgive me if I am kind of brief. You didn't really address my question, stating that Yahweh is not good is a mere assertion . I want to know , according to what standard is He not good ? Your own ?
Well yes by my own standard for sure. Whether that is meaningful or not depends. I again refer you to the Euthyphro dilemma as a starting point.
To be fair, I perhaps misinterpreted "according to whom?" so apologies if I went a little OT.
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 6:29 pm
@oxy again
So if you get to choose your own standard to measure goodness by then why can't the believer do the same?
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 6:34 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 6:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
They do, but you don't get to claim your personal standard (opinions) as demonstrable fact. WB btw Stat. Any believer is free to say "I don't believe/ I don't feel/It is not my opinion that", etc.
Of course that's not what you'd bitch about if you were engaged in justifying your "measures of goodness". You'd actually use the same measure of goodness as I would, and then remove your god from consideration according to them. We've been here before. Special definitions, special circumstance, special arguments, whole lot of "special" going on when one argues this or that about god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 6:57 pm
@rhythm
First of all, thanks ! I am actually stuck in an airport, so why not pass aome time?
So you are conceding that oxy cannot use his own standard?
Why should I adopt your standard? Mayne you should adopt mine?? :-)
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Reading comprehension ftl. You and he are both free to set your bar for "measures of goodness" wherever you choose. One of you is simply more honest in his motivations.
What would I have to adopt? Likely nothing, since you're from the same culture I am, the only difference in our "measures of goodness" arises when you start making excuses for god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 8:51 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 8:57 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 28, 2012 at 5:24 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: (March 26, 2012 at 11:59 am)Xavier Wrote: Meh. Not all theists say God is omnibenevolent, and the God of the Abrahamic religions most definitely isn't. According to whom??? Specific names aren't coming to me, but the field of Process Theology takes the stance that God is engaged an on-going process of perfection.
(March 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm)oxymoron Wrote: Philosophy can only tell us what might be; it takes science to understand what is. Philosophy does many things. It also sets the parameters of scientific inquiry. It defines what constitutes knowledge and defines the very rules of logic. It also helps identify relationships between categories being.
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm
(March 28, 2012 at 8:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (March 28, 2012 at 5:24 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: (March 26, 2012 at 11:59 am)Xavier Wrote: Meh. Not all theists say God is omnibenevolent, and the God of the Abrahamic religions most definitely isn't. According to whom??? Specific names aren't coming to me, but the field of Process Theology takes the stance that God is engaged an on-going process of perfection.
(March 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm)oxymoron Wrote: Philosophy can only tell us what might be; it takes science to understand what is. Philosophy does many things. It also sets the parameters of scientific inquiry. It defines what constitutes knowledge and defines the very rules of logic. It also helps identify relationships between categories being.
Manichaeism is a Christian sect with some unusual beliefs. One of which is that god is essentially dualistic, both good and evil, one half embodied by "god" who is good but not omnipotent against evil which is embodied by Satan. The history of the earth is, to them, the history of a struggle between these two forces which are not seen as mutually exclusive but complimentary and neccessary intertwined forces. Takes care of the problem of evil for them!
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm
mediamogul Wrote:Manichaeism is a Christian sect with some unusual beliefs. One of which is that god is essentially dualistic, both good and evil, one half embodied by "god" who is good but not omnipotent against evil which is embodied by Satan. The history of the earth is, to them, the history of a struggle between these two forces which are not seen as mutually exclusive but complimentary and neccessary intertwined forces. Takes care of the problem of evil for them! The fact that the idea of a god is so subjective proves that no such thing exists. I had Bible study last night (yes.. it's like I'm a fly stuck in the spider's web. Still a closet atheist) and something that was mentioned was that 'God is the only constant thing in our lives'. Well I beg to differ! God itself isn't even constant because there's over 30 000 xtian denominations and also other religions out there.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 11:41 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 11:43 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: The fact that the idea of a god is so subjective proves that no such thing exists.
I don't believe that qualifies as a 'proof'. It would be more accurate to say that because opinions about god vary so much that is proves that the term god encompasses too many concepts. (awkward sentence but I think you get the gist.)
(March 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm)mediamogul Wrote: Manichaeism is a Christian sect with some unusual beliefs. One of which is that god is essentially dualistic, ... Good example!
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RE: God formally disproven
March 28, 2012 at 11:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 29, 2012 at 12:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The trouble is that the term is all we have. Care to make short list of subjective "things" that exist objectively. Pointless request isn't it?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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