(April 24, 2012 at 7:28 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Is it an imaginary list or a real one?

Better. You're coming along nicely padawan.

(April 24, 2012 at 7:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes, and kudos. See my edit above

You're referring to the theist saying that theist claims don't require proof?

(April 24, 2012 at 7:36 pm)wtfbbq Wrote:

(April 24, 2012 at 7:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes, and kudos. See my edit above

You're referring to the theist saying that theist claims don't require proof?

No. I'm referring to your point that there should be more open dialogue where both sides could learn from each other.

I think the problem is that both sides literally keep stating their belief/lack of belief in a way that ridicules the other side (most of the time). There's no traction in that.

Both sides need to put themselves where the other is at and understand where they're coming from. Only then can you respond with an argument that directly addresses the previous argument because you understand what the other has put forth on the table. Jumping to conclusions like 'why do you believe in fairy tales' and 'you can't prove God doesn't exist' achieve close to nothing.

Quote:Both sides need to put themselves where the other is at and understand where they're coming from.

You seem to assume I and others here do not understand theist position which is untrue and I think ,an ad hominem.

Like many atheists here, I was very devout in my youth. I HAVE actually read the Bible, the Qur'an ,as well as other sacred books. I was also reading Aquinas at 16.

My hostility to SOME theists is because I'm unable to suffer fools. Of COURSE I understand say the young earth creationist position. However,I also think it is stunningly closed minded and willfully pig ignorant. Fortunately for me, I virtually never run into those individuals in my daily life. These people choose to inflict themselves on atheist forums, where their superstitious tripe is treated with the ridicule and contempt it deserves.

(April 28, 2012 at 8:45 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:Both sides need to put themselves where the other is at and understand where they're coming from.

You seem to assume I and others here do not understand theist position which is untrue and I think ,an ad hominem.

Like many atheists here, I was very devout in my youth. I HAVE actually read the Bible, the Qur'an ,as well as other sacred books. I was also reading Aquinas at 16.

My hostility to SOME theists is because I'm unable to suffer fools. Of COURSE I understand say the young earth creationist position. However,I also think it is stunningly closed minded and willfully pig ignorant. Fortunately for me, I virtually never run into those individuals in my daily life. These people choose to inflict themselves on atheist forums, where their superstitious tripe is treated with the ridicule and contempt it deserves.

If you all know their position perfectly then why do I often see the typical post that absolutely trashes e.g. creationism in the most foul way i.e. swearing, name calling, relating their belief to droppings...

If you know where they're coming from then the perfect answer to counter their argument should be given every time, but that isn't always the case.

Some do that, I think, out of frustration that we see people come here day after day, week after week making the same refuted claims. Without, I might add, apparently not reading the multiple 20+ page threads on the same subject. How many times should one debunk Pascal's wager, or defend Epicuris' problem of evil to a new set of deaf ears? It becomes tiresome.

I personally rarely bother anymore. If someone comes here and demonstrates both ignorance and an unwillingness to rectify same, I'm not interested in conversing with them at all. Some take the insult route, and while I try to avoid doing so myself, I can understand why some might choose to react differently.

(April 28, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Some do that, I think, out of frustration that we see people come here day after day, week after week making the same refuted claims. Without, I might add, apparently not reading the multiple 20+ page threads on the same subject. How many times should one debunk Pascal's wager, or defend Epicuris' problem of evil to a new set of deaf ears? It becomes tiresome.

I personally rarely bother anymore. If someone comes here and demonstrates both ignorance and an unwillingness to rectify same, I'm not interested in conversing with them at all. Some take the insult route, and while I try to avoid doing so myself, I can understand why some might choose to react differently.

I just find that theists will see this ignorance as a 'lack of understanding' about God. In most cases this boosts their own beliefs because they see us as ignorant and irrational.

(April 29, 2012 at 1:19 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

(April 28, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Some do that, I think, out of frustration that we see people come here day after day, week after week making the same refuted claims. Without, I might add, apparently not reading the multiple 20+ page threads on the same subject. How many times should one debunk Pascal's wager, or defend Epicuris' problem of evil to a new set of deaf ears? It becomes tiresome.

I personally rarely bother anymore. If someone comes here and demonstrates both ignorance and an unwillingness to rectify same, I'm not interested in conversing with them at all. Some take the insult route, and while I try to avoid doing so myself, I can understand why some might choose to react differently.

I just find that theists will see this ignorance as a 'lack of understanding' about God. In most cases this boosts their own beliefs because they see us as ignorant and irrational.

In my experience, they view us that way regardless.

Don't get me wrong, is prefer to see more light than heat around here. I just don't think it will have any kind of impact - beyond lowering the blood pressure.of some.

Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:In my experience, they view us that way regardless.

Don't get me wrong, is prefer to see more light than heat around here. I just don't think it will have any kind of impact - beyond lowering the blood pressure.of some.

Yeah I dunno. The reason I refuse to call or see myself as an 'atheist' is because that label has been tainted. We.. Or rather, you guys, could do so much more to lift the negative connotations of that label, and it starts with the individual and how you decide to conduct yourself in discussion.