You can always remind him that lots of people have been trying to figure Rev out for a very long time and none of the predicted end of the world warnings have happened yet.

It's such a sensitive situation that I wouldn't try to tackle it head-on. Kids that age are trying to establish their own identity, particularly in contrast to the identity of their parents. At this point, arguing for atheism might be perceived as providing an outline of your own perspective that he can distance himself from. Let him know that he has your support and his religion or lack of one won't change that.

For what it's worth, I don't think you can go wrong advising him to study the Bible himself without letting anyone tell him what to think about it, and let him come to his own conclusions. If he can handle reading it cover-to-cover, that should be the goal. If his fundamentalism survives that, at least he'll have come by it honestly rather than being brainwashed into it.

Damn, that's a terrible situation to be in. I think you should start of by reinforcing your love for your son, before attempting any sort of discussion on the subject. You could also try to expose him to other world views, without bringing up the subject at all. The age difference might be a factor here; but when my 5 year old kept talking about God (Because her fuckhead teacher decided to try to indoctrinate her into christianity), I started telling her about things like wicca, islam, scientology etc. I then asked her which of those ideologies sounded good to her. She is a Harry Potter fan, so she chose wicca. I went on to explain how sometimes people choose a religious standpoint solely because a particular aspect of it sounds good to them, or it's the only one they've ever been exposed to - and after the fact, they will accept everything else that it teaches. As I said, this worked with a 5 year old but I'm not sure it will with a 13 year old.

Good luck with it. As a father, I do not envy your position at all.

Regarding that Revelations bull shit .. Send him this list and gently ask him to read it from a logical point of view. Than tell him that you sent it to him because you don't want him to make choices based on the emotion of fear. Which would be the truth. I don't want my son to make life long decisions based on any emotions. Rather, well thought principles.


http://atheistforums.org/thread-12642.html

Perhaps suggest that you wish to delay further discussion of this issue until he is not under the influence of his grandmother?

I would wait until the kid brought up the subject and then I would gently question his beliefs. I would try to make him defend the most absurd things that he holds true. This would especially include the stories in the Bible such as Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, the resurrection, etc. I would ask what makes him think these things are true. If his answer was something like, "They're in the Bible", I would ask if he knew who wrote the Bible. If he said something like, "People inspired by God", I would ask how he knew that was true. And so on...

I would try to make him realize that his beliefs weren't supported by any evidence and I would ask why he doesn't believe the stories in the Koran. Hopefully, he would start to question things on his own. This way you aren't being confrontational and you can't be seen as trying to force your beliefs on your kid. You are simply asking questions.

My advice is that whatever you do be inviting for him to tell you what he believes and why he believes it. The more he distinguishes between what HE believes versus what he has been told, the better. But it can't be forced down his throat. The entire point of adolescence is forming the self, and a huge part of that is differentiating between what a person actually thinks about the world and his or her place in the world. It's natural for him to be at this point

When he's talking to you he's also sort of talking to himself... given the opportunity to verbalize everything, he'll be more likely to think it through.

Thanks everyone for the input so far

(May 3, 2012 at 12:08 pm)Cinjin Wrote: http://atheistforums.org/thread-12642.html

thats an awesome list Cin... I might have to save that for my coup de grace

(May 3, 2012 at 12:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Perhaps suggest that you wish to delay further discussion of this issue until he is not under the influence of his grandmother?

Unfortunately that's not for many years to come, and I'd rather try and combat it in some way now before his ideas get even more entrenched.
She's a decent enough woman, but holds a very blinkered outlook. Her most recent email to me began "I'm not being racist, but..." <- Funny how whenever I hear this, the next thing that's said is indeed racist.

(May 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm)Thor Wrote: I would wait until the kid brought up the subject and then I would gently question his beliefs.
/snip
Hopefully, he would start to question things on his own. This way you aren't being confrontational and you can't be seen as trying to force your beliefs on your kid. You are simply asking questions.

(May 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm)el_presidente Wrote: My advice is that whatever you do be inviting for him to tell you what he believes and why he believes it.
..... he'll be more likely to think it through.

All great advice.

If I can encourage him to actually THINK about this stuff instead of just accepting it, then with luck reason should win through in the end.

NoMoreFaith Wrote:...so maybe pick up references from respected christian scholars on these arguments instead of atheistic ones.

I like this idea the best. Simply find some things written by more liberal Christians that explain away the fundie point of view. He may be more receptive to that message, because you wouldn't be challenging all of his beliefs at once, just the really nonsensical stuff.

See if you can get him to read Jesus Interrupted. That should be enough to get him questioning.