I should note that although some of these arguments are of my own creation, many are not and may be found word for word either on this site or elsewhere. Regardless, a large amount of credit is owed to another author and I would gladly give it if I could remember where this list came from. If you are the author, do step forward, as there is no intent to plagiarize your excellent work. I am merely posting this list because I think it is an excellent sheet of paper to have with you when debating eternal damnation with a self-proclaimed sheep.


1. Just punishment should fit the crime. Hell is eternal torture, the likes of which are hard for me to imagine a crime that would warrant it.

2. Punishment should discourage bad behavior. Since Judgment Day comes as a surprise after our life is over, it doesn't do much to discourage bad behavior.

3. Punishment should rehabilitate. Hell is eternal. There is no chance for parole. It's only function is to torture.

4. The decision on who goes to Hell isn't based on how good or evil you were in life but on whether or not you joined the right religion and held the correct set of unproven metaphysical beliefs. No matter how evil you were, Christ will forgive you if you convert. No matter how good you were, Christ will condemn you if you don't convert. Therefore, Hell is not to punish wrongdoers but rather to torture wrong thinkers. This is not justice. This is a dictator tormenting non-loyal citizens.

5. No moral system of justice can allow an innocent person to take the place of a guilty criminal in punishment.

6. On earth, there is no way of knowing which Hell is the true Hell. Muslims never worry about the Christian Hell and vice versa. If life on earth is a "test", Yahweh-Allah has done a lousy job of making sure to administer the test fairly, since passing the test will depend greatly on accident of birth.

7. If life is a "test" as Muslims and Christians alike often like to say, what is the test designed to do exactly? Normally, tests separate a population into groups according to their performance. It seems the criteria to pass this "test" is gullibility, accepting claims simply on the say-so of clerical figures. So what is Yahweh-Allah looking for? Gullible boot-licking sycophants it would seem.

8. If Hell is eternal, wouldn't we get used to the pain eventually? After being on fire for 200 years, wouldn't we get accustomed to the sensation? Wouldn't our eyes adjust to the darkness? No matter how bad Hell is, humans would get used to it. Conversely with Heaven, humans would soften until the bliss became part of life.

9. What are Satan's motivations exactly? Does he win if he gets enough souls? Why would he torture souls that were not loyal to Yahweh/Allah? Even if Satan’s motivation for torturing humans is revenge against Yahweh/Allah, what possible satisfaction could be achieved by torturing people that god had already turned his back on for all eternity?

10. What are Yahweh-Allah's motivations exactly? If the criteria of entrance to Heaven are submission and gullibility, this suggests a highly egotistical god, if not a narcissistic one. Such a god would be expected to make regular appearances to his followers to bask in their devotion. Yet this same god hides? And this is the same god of their scriptures who regularly intervenes in overt ways? This is not a consistent, believable character.

Which interpretation of Hell sorry?

The Universalist's version or the Non-Universalist's version?

These arguments ring a bell and the style seems like mine but I don't remember where I made them. Don't worry about credit since I'm sure I wasn't the first to come up with any of them. Just keep spreading the word.

I completely agree. The hell you described does not exist.

Quote:I completely agree. The hell you described does not exist

.



I didn't read the list because,like the notion of god, God, I do not believe hell can be reasoned into or out of existence. I simply disbelieve in both due to a lack of credible evidence. I need argue nor prove exactly nothing. The burden of proof lies with those claiming hell is real.


Plus I can find no demonstrably true premise on which to base an argument.

(May 2, 2012 at 11:11 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: These arguments ring a bell and the style seems like mine but I don't remember where I made them. Don't worry about credit since I'm sure I wasn't the first to come up with any of them. Just keep spreading the word.

It's very possible they are your arguments. Now that I read it again, it think it definitely has a DP ring to it. No wonder I like it.

---

(May 3, 2012 at 12:24 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I completely agree. The hell you described does not exist.

I see. Could you do us all a favor and tell us what hell DOES exist?

In fact, to prove your point ... please answer the following questions for us.


1. Does god cast people into hell?
2. Is there fire in hell?
3. Are all the non-believers on these forums going to hell?
4. Will our souls remain in hell for eternity?
5. How can we avoid going to hell?


Please do defend your statement that the hell I described does not exist. Also, we would all appreciate it if you could get even 5 christians on this site to agree with your version of what exactly hell is.

Silly me ... I was thinking that the Bible was pretty clear on Hell. How foolish of me to take the Bible at face value. Clearly I need to get the Greek and Hebrew translations.

Most of these are classic old arguments against hell. The serious theists probably have already heard these and have answers to them. They'll probably be coming out any minute now with answers to all of them. Not saying they're bad though, but just warning ya.

1. Does god cast people into hell?No. Hell is not without its pleasures - lust, greed, self-righteous anger. People follow what they most desire and resent what stands between them and their heart's desire.

"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." - John 3:19-20

2. Is there fire in hell?Bibilical references to fire symbolise the quality of our loves and the resulting benefits or harm thereof. Purification of the soul is described in Rev 3:18, Dan 12:10, Mal 3:2, Matt 3:11, Zec 13:9 and elsewhere when reference is made to love for the Lord. Elsewhere in the scriptures fire symbolizes the infernal lusts for evil that destroy the soul. See Zec 9:4, Joel 1:19, Matt 3:10, and Rev 20:14,15. Hell is filled with the burning passions of lust and rage.
3. Are all the non-believers on these forums going to hell?I don't know, nor do I care to speculate.
4. Will our souls remain in hell for eternity?No one has been in hell forever yet. Theoretically, those who remain in hell do so because they prefer the delights of hell over those of heaven.
5. How can we avoid going to hell?Love what is good and true and avoid doing evil because it is inherently wrong.

(May 3, 2012 at 5:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: ...
4. Will our souls remain in hell for eternity?No one has been in hell forever yet. Theoretically, those who remain in hell do so because they prefer the delights of hell over those of heaven.
...

I guess we have nothing to worry about then, correct?

edit: I mean, basically one man's hell is another man's heaven and vice versa.

(May 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I guess we have nothing to worry about then, correct? ...basically one man's hell is another man's heaven and vice versa.

Essentially yes, but I would not want to sugarcoat the plight of the damned, because in this life the good and the evil commingle, whereas in the afterlife people form communities of shared interests.

Imagine being at a party where everyone loved only themselves and thought they had to be the star. Each person would be preoccupied with impressing others with how clever and charming they were and no one would really care about anything others had to say. It might seem all polite on the surface but everyone would be filled with resentment and envy. Good people would would avoid that kind of party and evil people would flock to it.