Quote:Oh, I don't know; I think a suicide bomber would have to be pretty stupid.

Even in that class of terrorist, there has been what might be regarded as those with special learning needs:

http://www.cracked.com/article/79_the-5-...terrorism/

(August 6, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I call partial bullshit on this. Right wing bigots still have a problem with any outsider. Sikhs don't represent the "media" threat they falsely see. It would not surprise me that the targets were mistaken for Muslims.

But asshole right wingers I seriously doubt would want a Sikh marrying into their family. Could you imagine Thanksgiving at a that mixed family? Do you really think that the asshole who did this would want a turban at.
his table?

Do you think the Chick Fil A owners would vote for a Sikh or want someone in their family marrying a Sikh?

Yeah, let's just lump everyone together! That's what a reasonable person does! Chick Fil A hates Sikhs!

The shooter is an asshole and everyone is dead. <-- My response to most of these events.

I wonder why the media isn't wondering what Sikhs did to make the guy so angry...isn't that what the root cause of terrorism is? Being provoked?

(August 8, 2012 at 8:25 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: I wonder why the media isn't wondering what Sikhs did to make the guy so angry...isn't that what the root cause of terrorism is? Being provoked?

Actually, a traumatised Sikh outside the temple asked" "What did we do wrong?" My heart wept.

There may be an incident like that once a week in the US and gun nuts will still not allow anything to be done about gun control. The majority can go fuck itself.

People wonder why I assert that in my opinion the US political system is the most corrupt in the developed world.

CliveStaples Wrote:I wonder why the media isn't wondering what Sikhs did to make the guy so angry...isn't that what the root cause of terrorism is? Being provoked?

Because it is highly probable that this asshole thought he was killing Muslims. The picture of him and his girlfriend that is circulating on the news has them both wearing the name of a neo-nazi organization, and he supposedly also has a 9-11 tatoo. It wouldn't be the first time that Sikhs were attacked, because some intolerant asshole thought wanted to hurt Muslims.

Quote:Ever since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Sikhs have been victim to — by one count — more than 700 incidents of violence and murder at the hands of people who wrongly assumed they are Muslims.

http://theweek.com/article/index/231564/...-terrorism

(August 8, 2012 at 9:03 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Because it is highly probable that this asshole thought he was killing Muslims. The picture of him and his girlfriend that is circulating on the news has them both wearing the name of a neo-nazi organization, and he supposedly also has a 9-11 tatoo. It wouldn't be the first time that Sikhs were attacked, because some intolerant asshole thought wanted to hurt Muslims.

Sure, but what makes you think that in this particular case, the attacker thought the victims were Muslim?

Do neo-Nazi attacks on Sikhs most often involve mistaken identity in that way? How do you know that this guy probably didn't just hate Sikhs?

---

(August 8, 2012 at 8:36 pm)padraic Wrote: Actually, a traumatised Sikh outside the temple asked" "What did we do wrong?" My heart wept.

There may be an incident like that once a week in the US and gun nuts will still not allow anything to be done about gun control. The majority can go fuck itself.

Right, because it would be so much better if he just used an IED instead.

And, of course, the best way to prevent abuses of liberty is to just deny people liberty. I mean, we need security, not liberty, right?

Quote:People wonder why I assert that in my opinion the US political system is the most corrupt in the developed world.

I wonder that.

(August 8, 2012 at 4:37 am)CliveStaples Wrote:

(August 6, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I call partial bullshit on this. Right wing bigots still have a problem with any outsider. Sikhs don't represent the "media" threat they falsely see. It would not surprise me that the targets were mistaken for Muslims.

But asshole right wingers I seriously doubt would want a Sikh marrying into their family. Could you imagine Thanksgiving at a that mixed family? Do you really think that the asshole who did this would want a turban at.
his table?

Do you think the Chick Fil A owners would vote for a Sikh or want someone in their family marrying a Sikh?

Yeah, let's just lump everyone together! That's what a reasonable person does! Chick Fil A hates Sikhs!

I didn't say they hated Sikhs, anymore than when they say "we don't hate gays, we just prefer traditional biblical marriage" I am just saying they would publically say "we don't hate Sikhs, but we would prefer our Christian family members marry Christians" same back of the bus attitude. Push them far enough and what they claim is just a preference and their real bigotry will rear it's head.

If they are willing to treat gays as "separate but equal, what makes you think they'd support an inter religious marriage, not as individuals, but as a company. Now while many liberal theists and atheists don't care who you marry, this is not a liberal family so it is not a stretch to say that they would "prefer" that their own only marry other right wing Christians.

It is not a blanket statement because we are talking about a company with right wing leaning "biblical principles".

Do really think a company that promotes "biblical principles" really likes the ideal of inclusion and pluralism when they cant even extend that same right to gays?

We are not talking about all Christians, just this family. There are plenty of liberal Christians, and probably some economic right wing Christians who are social libertarians, this is not one of those families

(August 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I didn't say they hated Sikhs, anymore than when they say "we don't hate gays, we just prefer traditional biblical marriage" I am just saying they would publically say "we don't hate Sikhs, but we would prefer our Christian family members marry Christians" same back of the bus attitude. Push them far enough and what they claim is just a preference and their real bigotry will rear it's head.

If they are willing to treat gays as "separate but equal, what makes you think they'd support an inter religious marriage, not as individuals, but as a company. Now while many liberal theists and atheists don't care who you marry, this is not a liberal family so it is not a stretch to say that they would "prefer" that their own only marry other right wing Christians.

It is not a blanket statement because we are talking about a company with right wing leaning "biblical principles".

Do really think a company that promotes "biblical principles" really likes the ideal of inclusion and pluralism when they cant even extend that same right to gays?

We are not talking about all Christians, just this family. There are plenty of liberal Christians, and probably some economic right wing Christians who are social libertarians, this is not one of those families

You asked how the Chick fil A people would feel about Sikhs. What makes you think you can infer attitudes about Sikhs from attitudes about same-sex marriage? Do the majority of people against same-sex marriage hate Sikhs?

You're lumping in "We disapprove of marriage to Sikhs", "we disapprove of everyone who wears turbans at our dinner table", and "our Thanksgivings would be awkward if we had a Sikh in our family" with..."We don't approve of same-sex marriage".

What justifies this? You're just lumping them in, "Oh, they're in the same bus." "Oh, they're just bigots. About sexual orientation. And so therefore hate Sikhs, too." You're just attributing more 'bad' beliefs to people that you think have 'bad' beliefs. It's a cognitive bias.

CliveStaples Wrote:Sure, but what makes you think that in this particular case, the attacker thought the victims were Muslim?

Do neo-Nazi attacks on Sikhs most often involve mistaken identity in that way? How do you know that this guy probably didn't just hate Sikhs?

It's just speculation based on the fact that Mulsims went to the top of the neo-nazi hate list after 9-11. I was just merely saying that the reason no one is asking why this guy hated Sikhs is because no one knows if he actually intended to kill Sikhs. Of course, we may never know the truth.