(August 27, 2012 at 9:06 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(August 27, 2012 at 5:23 am)greneknight Wrote: Hi folks,

I'm a Christian and an altar boy in the Church of England. I'm currently in another country because my dad is in the foreign service and he has to come here.

Actually I'm already fed up with Christian Forums which I joined two weeks ago and got a 3-day ban for not being fundamentalist enough. My vicar warned me that US Christians are largely fundamentalists and they're extremely judgmental and unkind. I experienced it firsthand. My only crime was I offended fundamentalists by raising points I read from Bart Ehrman's book. They accused my vicar of being a wolf in sheep's clothing because it was he who lent me the book.

Anyway, I have this niggling feeling that atheists are nicer people than fundamentalists. Anyway, I have a liberal education and [/size]a liberal upbringing so I like diversity in life.

Glad to meet atheists in this forum.

Cheers,

greneknight

Hi, friend. Welcome.

Thanks!!!

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(August 27, 2012 at 9:06 am)TaraJo Wrote: Hi, Greneknight. I'm another newbie here. I've found the place is pretty welcoming and friendly so far, so I'm hoping you will, too (and that it will continue to be friendly and welcoming after everyone here realizes I'm completely insane).

(August 27, 2012 at 6:01 am)greneknight Wrote: The usual question that I get asked is why I am a Christian. It's obvious. I was brought up a Christian and I've been an altar boy since I was 5. Naturally I would be a Christian. If I had been born in Saudi, I'd be a Muslim altar boy today. Anyway, this simple truthful answer offended many Christians in Christian Forums. I can't understand why it should offend anyone. They are also furious with me because I said there was no evidence or logical argument for religion and faith is totally blind. I was surprised by their anger and asked them what evidence they had. They became even angrier!!! I've never offended so many people in so short a space of time as I did in CF. I'm glad I don't live in the US if the Christians there are so weird.

I love those answers you gave them! I've told a lot of people over the years that I'm far less concerned with exactly what a person believes as much as why they believe it. I've talked to Christians who will chalk up evidence of their faith to some goofy coincidence that they're going to blame on divine intervention or something. I've talked to ones who seem to fall for Pascal's wager. I've fallen for others who, after hearing their description, don't even realize they've fallen for the same brainwashing techniques used by doomsday cults.. So to hear someone who has actually been able to ask themselves those hard questions and come up with honest and intelligent answers is extremely refreshing.

And, honestly, I've seen the damage fundamentalists can do. It's easy to just make fun of them and hate them, but I don't know if I have that luxury. See, my partner, who I love very much, well, he's a trans man and he comes from a fundamentalist Mormon family. He's not out to them yet and it hurts him, but he's terrified that when he tells the, his family will abandon him. As much as it frustrates me to see him go through that kind of pain, he still loves his family and I can't demonize them for that. I guess it's good in that it gives me a little balance in my perspective of them and it's good to note that they aren't as extreme as they could be (they point out the extreme branches of the Mormons like the FLDS church s examples of extremism that they don't subscribe to and that they think are crazy). It's kinda interesting that most fundamentalists, and not just religious fundamentalists either, can always point to another fundamentalist and say "I might be extreme, but they're even worse!" Wonder what the people at the end of that chain say?

Hi,

Thanks and welcome too (since you're new too).

I'm sorry I'm quite ignorant about many things. I'm still in school. What's a tran man? Did you mean "train"? He works on a train? What's a Mormon? I know I should do a search on google but I'm really lazy to do that. Isn't a Mormon one of those chaps who wear a white shirt with a black badge and they go round preaching but they are very nice and good-natured?

(August 27, 2012 at 9:16 am)greneknight Wrote: Hi,

Thanks and welcome too (since you're new too).

I'm sorry I'm quite ignorant about many things. I'm still in school. What's a tran man? Did you mean "train"? He works on a train? What's a Mormon? I know I should do a search on google but I'm really lazy to do that. Isn't a Mormon one of those chaps who wear a white shirt with a black badge and they go round preaching but they are very nice and good-natured?

Guess some of this is lingo and some of it is kinda regional.

Simplest answer is that a trans man is a man who used to be a girl. Do you know who Chaz Bono is? That's what I mean.

Mormonism is a branch of Christianity that I think is mostly American, centered in Salt Lake City. Their official name is 'Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints.' Yeah, I think they're the people you're talking about in there. Ever heard of people talking about magical underwear? That's them (although they call them 'temple garments'). We have a presidential election going on right now where one of the candidates is Mormon, and if he wins, we'll probably hear a lot about the LDS church from that. They have their missionaries that go around, preaching to everyone. I'll admit, on a personal level, they are pretty nice and good-natured, but their political/social beliefs are ass backwards and can be dangerous.

Welcome to the forums. If you don't make ridiculous claims about the deity you serve, you'll have no problems here. Atheists can be rather friendly when shown the slightest bit of respect.

(August 27, 2012 at 9:30 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(August 27, 2012 at 9:16 am)greneknight Wrote: Hi,

Thanks and welcome too (since you're new too).

I'm sorry I'm quite ignorant about many things. I'm still in school. What's a tran man? Did you mean "train"? He works on a train? What's a Mormon? I know I should do a search on google but I'm really lazy to do that. Isn't a Mormon one of those chaps who wear a white shirt with a black badge and they go round preaching but they are very nice and good-natured?

Guess some of this is lingo and some of it is kinda regional.

Simplest answer is that a trans man is a man who used to be a girl. Do you know who Chaz Bono is? That's what I mean.

Mormonism is a branch of Christianity that I think is mostly American, centered in Salt Lake City. Their official name is 'Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints.' Yeah, I think they're the people you're talking about in there. Ever heard of people talking about magical underwear? That's them (although they call them 'temple garments'). We have a presidential election going on right now where one of the candidates is Mormon, and if he wins, we'll probably hear a lot about the LDS church from that. They have their missionaries that go around, preaching to everyone. I'll admit, on a personal level, they are pretty nice and good-natured, but their political/social beliefs are ass backwards and can be dangerous.

Sorry, I've not heard of Chaz Bono but I know what you mean. I've never thought of it the other way round but I know of gays. There are some in my school. They are boys who behave like girls. I've heard of lesbians who are the opposite but I haven't really seen one. I know of girls who act tough but I don't think they're lesbians. This is highly sensitive and it's very easy to get it wrong. So if I see a girl who behaves like a boy, I wouldn't call her a lesbian. But it's easier to identify if it's a boy probably because I go to a boys' school and I have more examples to go by.

I know about the US Elections. Most adults I know think Obama is the right guy. But they aren't Americans and they can't vote.

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(August 27, 2012 at 9:46 am)Cinjin Wrote: Welcome to the forums. If you don't make ridiculous claims about the deity you serve, you'll have no problems here. Atheists can be rather friendly when shown the slightest bit of respect.

Thanks! Unlikely. I don't make any claims about any deity. Any such claim cannot be supported anyway. As I have always said (and got into trouble with folks in the Christian Forums), God is not backed by evidence and rational argument.

Lisbon Castle is not run over by locals because most of them don't know they can go there for free.

Anyhow, how can it be that you know there a very very slim chance that this god boy exists and yet you believe it does exist?7
You are aware that there are priests which no longer have faith, but still preach, because they don't know how to do anything else in this society, right? Maybe your vicar is one of them and has been trying to show you the right way, without being too explicit.

(August 27, 2012 at 10:54 am)pocaracas Wrote: Lisbon Castle is not run over by locals because most of them don't know they can go there for free.

Anyhow, how can it be that you know there a very very slim chance that this god boy exists and yet you believe it does exist?7
You are aware that there are priests which no longer have faith, but still preach, because they don't know how to do anything else in this society, right? Maybe your vicar is one of them and has been trying to show you the right way, without being too explicit.

No, he still believes in God. But he knows there is no evidence.

The probability for God to exist is very small if you go by maths. But because faith is irrational, it doesn't hurt one bit to have a poor probability and yet to keep one's belief.

That's precisely my argument with folks in Christian Forums but they wouldn't listen.

I can see why they would think you're a troll.
And around here you're going to get asked this a lot: "if you know all that, how come you still believe?".
You'll have to keep convincing us, non-believers, that your faith is stronger than any argument against it (which you support!).

You come across as very well read, so it strikes me as odd that you've never encountered either the term "trans" or "Mormon", yet are familiar with the term "troll". Are you yanking the proverbial chain?

Quote:I'm a Christian and an altar boy in the Church of England.

Cake or death?

Welcome. We have some fundie morons here. They are tolerated for their comedic value.

(August 27, 2012 at 12:31 pm)Gambit Wrote: You come across as very well read, so it strikes me as odd that you've never encountered either the term "trans" or "Mormon", yet are familiar with the term "troll". Are you yanking the proverbial chain?

I didn't know what trans meant but I've finally figured out that it's short for transvestite which is a word I know. I know nothing about Mormons except that I've heard my parents saying that when we see men in white shirts and black badges. I know they're preaching. I wanted to be sure Tarajo was talking about the same thing because I don't think I've seen it in print before.

As for "troll" every boy in my school knows what that means.