What are you feelings on religious tolerance and how far will you go to push for people being able to express their beliefs?

Even before I became a Christian, I was always big on religious tolerance even creating a Facebook group years ago. But I think I started to ignore other religions after I became Christian (fasting for Ramadan was the last step before), but maybe that was because I found what I was seeking.

When I think of religious freedom, I first think of the Hindus mostly because I never personally liked the Eastern religions and because of them being oppressed by other religions groups. When I think of the freedom of public prayer, the Moslems come first to mind because the way they have to pray (as for me, I can just pray without anyone ever knowing...they may just assume I am just resting my head in my hands...it's why when other Christians complain about a supposed lack of freedom for public prayer, I just ignore them) needs to be protected.

Now when I mentioned religious tolerance, someone much more liberal than myself mentioned on my Facebook page I should have made it religious acceptance....I did not respond, but I do not believe in acceptance of beliefs. I am not going to start praying to a Hindu goddess.

Religious tolerance is quite easy (it just calls for acting like a human being), but accepting beliefs you don't hold to be true is too much to ask.

Quote:What are you feelings on religious tolerance and how far will you go to push for people being able to express their beliefs?

I really,trooly, rooly do not give a flying flunggle about the personal superstitions of others,in principle. So I'm not actually tolerant,merely indifferent.

However,I have no time for proselytisers and militants of any kind. I haven been known to become apoplectic when religions interfere in politics. I have no tolerance of the practice tax exemption for any religion.

Here in secular Australia, religion is seldom an issue for most people. It is considered crass to wear your beliefs on your sleeve or proselytise. One's religious beliefs are simply nobody else's business.

In my country,freedom of religion and freedom of speech are guaranteed by our constitution and laws,and enforced by the rule of law. However, I recognise no such innate rights. I will support the rights of others as long as it is my best interest. To what degree depends on the level of threat to my interest. Although I have been guilty of altruistic acts from time-to-time,I have never claimed to be an altruist.Nor so far,have I ever met such a beast.

Quote:One's religious beliefs are simply nobody else's business.

Oh, if only we could get our own home-growns jesus freaks to act that way this country would improve immeasurably.

(August 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm)Polaris Wrote: What are you feelings on religious tolerance and how far will you go to push for people being able to express their beliefs?

I believe in the freedom to believe whatever non-sense you wish.


I also believe in the freedom of speech for those who wish to call them non-sense beliefs because they are non-sense.

(August 31, 2012 at 10:42 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(August 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm)Polaris Wrote: What are you feelings on religious tolerance and how far will you go to push for people being able to express their beliefs?

I believe in the freedom to believe whatever non-sense you wish.


I also believe in the freedom of speech for those who wish to call them non-sense beliefs because they are non-sense.

You have to be very careful with the latter because for many cultures, you cannot separate easily their race from their religion.

Quote:In my country,freedom of religion and freedom of speech are guaranteed by our constitution and laws,and enforced by the rule of law. However, I recognise no such innate rights. I will support the rights of others as long as it is my best interest. To what degree depends on the level of threat to my interest.

I would argue that it's always in your best interests, do you want to live in a place where whether you can speak or not depends on what you are going to say and whether people support that view? It's easy to support popular speech and speech that you agree with, it's the unpopular, revolutionary speech that is the most vulnerable (some of the most important discoveries and ideas in human history).

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine

But that's a purely utilitarian point. To hear people say that they support freedom of speech for only as long as it serves their interests scares and saddens me, because it means they don't really support it. Is being able to form our own opinions, to share knowledge and thoughts, to express ourselves, not one of the things that define us as humans? Even though you have goals that might be opposed to mine that does not mean that I would want your freedom of speech any less protected. I wouldn't support it, and the rights of the speaker, any less than I would support speech that furthers my own goals.

Quote:I would argue that it's always in your best interests, do you want to live in a place where whether you can speak or not depends on what you are going to say and whether people support that view?

I try to avoid superlative claims; so hard to prove.

I argue it is usually,but not always in my best interest to be tolerant in my behaviour and to obey the law. l ignore laws with which I consider unjust if I think I can get away with it,and/or am willing to accept the consequences.

'Liberty' is a vague and relative term. For Paine,'liberty' did not extend to women or slaves, nor even for non landowning free men,who did NOT have the right to vote..

Quote:Even though you have goals that might be opposed to mine, you're freedom of speech would never be up for negotiation, and my support would never be conditional.

'Freedoms' have little to do with negotiation everything to with power.Virtually impossible not to be forced to compromise severely if you try to negotiate from a position of weakness. Every so-called freedom we possess can be and has been taken away by government at the stroke of a pen or through sheer indifference. The US has a long history of both.(I can give you a short list if you want ,starting with the US' nasty habit of not keeping (any I think) treaties it made with native Americans)

MY support IS conditional, on you not posing a threat to me. Push-comes-to-shove, and I feel sufficiently threatened, I WILL kill you if I can.. I do not put your survival or any number of anonymous others above my own.

People are free to believe what they want. People who believe similarly are more than welcome to get together because of this.

But when people, who want nothing to do with those believes, are forced to partake in the delusion in one way or another, I say stop.

It is never right to hold your own fairy tale in such high esteem that you start a war over it, lure the weak/ignorant/uneducated with false promises and threats, knock on people's doors disrupting the domestic peace, keep yourself above the government and don't pay taxes because of it, cram your own political agenda upon those who don't share your belief, bypass scientific evidence just because it doesn't fit with your particular deity or think yourself morally superior when you're not. That is the extent of my tolerance.

(September 1, 2012 at 2:18 am)Kayenneh Wrote: People are free to believe what they want. People who believe similarly are more than welcome to get together because of this.

But when people, who want nothing to do with those believes, are forced to partake in the delusion in one way or another, I say stop.

It is never right to hold your own fairy tale in such high esteem that you start a war over it, lure the weak/ignorant/uneducated with false promises and threats, knock on people's doors disrupting the domestic peace, keep yourself above the government and don't pay taxes because of it, cram your own political agenda upon those who don't share your belief, bypass scientific evidence just because it doesn't fit with your particular deity or think yourself morally superior when you're not. That is the extent of my tolerance.

That is a fairly big problem where I live and grew up. We have the door to door people salling Jesus and such. An incident this past year at the high school I graduated from and where my sister works there was a normal size 8.5"X11" flyer was placed around the school for an Atheist club meeting. The top in big bold letters was the definition for atheism:

Atheism- A lack of belief in a god or gods. Doest not mean immoral or evil.

The had a picture of the US flag with the following words underneath it:

"The U.S. was formed under the freedom of religion so that no religion would have laws made in favor of or against it."

Then finally at the bottom it had the date, time and location. Those flyers were removed by the principal within an hour of them being put up and the group leaders called into the office. The principal had crossed out the definition portion of the flyer and wrote a short note beside it stating that the portion crossed out was disruptive to the education process of the school and would not be tolerated. He also circled the bottom part and said that it was ok. What is funny to me about this situation is that a definition of a word is disruptive. One of the students asked the principal if the definition had to be removed from the school's dictionaries as well. Smartass question, I know, but I have to say I totally agree with the boy. A flyer for a christian club lead by students is ok with whatever sort of thing they put on there, but an atheist club also lead by students cannot display the definition of the main focus of their club without it being disruptive? I love Texas in a lot of ways, but I will also admit we are lacking in several places as well.

I am pretty much live and let live. I don't much care to start trouble over nothing. But, my capacity for tolerance is only equal to that which is accorded to me.