Oh cmon, not everyone thinks he's a christian.

I believe I'm already on record somewhere as to what I think he is.

(September 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm)greneknight Wrote:

(September 6, 2012 at 9:56 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: LOL yes yes I'm a Christian, sure. I'm scared, I'll confess I'll do anything you want.

Oh no I'm so offended you said mean things. Ouch eek ook aak.

Waah waah I'm weeping shocked and appalled. I don't know what I could possibly do.

(Pick which one of the replies you like the most, or pick several and combine them. then pretend they came from me)

Hi Vinny,

Please forgive me if I was rude. I had to be because you deliberately refused to answer what is so obvious to all of us. You came to this forum representing yourself as an atheist. You claimed to be a rational atheist who found theism reasonable. After a few posts, it became obvious to all of us that you were not being honest and you're in fact a Christian. We challenged you to blaspheme the Holy Trinity just to make sure that you're really what you claimed to be.

You didn't reply by admitting you were a Christian. You continued representing yourself as an atheist but you made it seem like blasphemy was such a difficult thing to do. You put ridiculous conditions on us before you would even consider whether to blaspheme.

To this day, you continue to represent yourself as an atheist. Your signature contains the words "Honour the truth". I'm appealing to you to be truthful. If you are a Christian (which is what everyone believes you to be), can you please refrain from telling lies that you are an atheist and can you stop the dishonesty and just admit the truth that you are a Christian? I'm only appealing to you to be honest. Telling lies will not endear you to anyone nor will it make your cause any more respectable.

I hope you will consider this carefully and do the right thing - own up to a lie if you have lied and set the record straight. Jesus would want you to be honest - think about it.

Dear greneknight,

Thank you for your kind and respectful post. It was a refreshing change from the status quo that your posting has become. You are forgiven for being rude. I hold no ill will towards you. I take it you want me to say that I am a Christian. As a way of coercing me to admit I am a Christian (or possibly just to test my allegiance to atheism), you want me to take the blasphemy challenge. I am pleased and impressed by the kindness and generosity you have extended towards me in this post. I find it touching and sincerely hope it continues.

I first heard people whispering that I was a Christian, a number of days ago. As the rumors kept spreading, more and more people bought into them. It turned into outright accusations and heated rhetoric. I heard a few attempts to blaspheme Jesus and the Christian(?) God. Perhaps in an attempt to rile me up or offend me. And then, I believe, came the blasphemy challenge. As the calls to blaspheme grew louder, my conditions grew firmer. I even set a deadline for my conditions to be met. Unfortunately, those who called for me to blaspheme did not take my conditions seriously.

You see, when I heard the whispers of me being a Christian, I honestly felt a sinking feeling. What gave that impression? Why were they being so hostile? Why was I being rejected? Did I get caught? Was I going to be in trouble? It was funny to me, how a little internet community, little more than pixels on a 1020p widescreen monitor with excellent contrast ratio at a low price thanks to a great sale at Walmart back in 2011, had such a grip on my feelings. Ugh. I couldn't sleep for at least two days. I woke up dreary and haggard. My eyes felt heavy. My shoulders dropped. I lost my appetite. I felt terrible. To be honest, all this might have also been the result of last night's curry. Don't blame yourself.

But do you want to know the truth? I'll tell you the truth: It's one thing to insult me, think I am a Christian, troll me, roll me, turn me up and bowl me, accuse me, use me, eat me cake and choose me, harass me, gas me, wear my pants and sass me.

But it's another thing to coerce me. Into anything. Even if I wanna do it, freely, willingly. The very act of somebody trying to force you, or challenge you, or somehow manipulate or threaten you into doing anything, even if it's something you wanted to do, is something I'm not cool with. I want to do something because I want to do it, not because someone else is violating my own free will and personal agency to get me to do it. That's not cool.

As a way to make it less coerced, and make it more balanced, more quid pro quo, I introduced my own conditions: Where instead of someone else demanding something of me, we cooperated with each other and gave each other what we wanted.

But, you didn't keep up your end of the bargain. This turned a good faith discussion into, unfortunately, a bad-faith one. You would not respect my conditions, yet you expected, even tried to coerce me into respecting yours. Not cool, bro. Not cool.

Now let's set the record straight: I take it, you're not interested in me pledging allegiance to some religion that I very likely don't even subscribe to. You are more interested in finding out the truth.

Let me know if you want to make this consensual. A quid pro quo. Two friends, helping each other out, rather than engaging in coercion, bad-faith moves and all that negativity. Keep in mind, I actually want to come out with the truth. So right now, that's all I want to know. Keep me posted.

The person formerly known as Vinny.

(September 7, 2012 at 12:30 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote:

(September 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm)greneknight Wrote: Hi Vinny,

Please forgive me if I was rude. I had to be because you deliberately refused to answer what is so obvious to all of us. You came to this forum representing yourself as an atheist. You claimed to be a rational atheist who found theism reasonable. After a few posts, it became obvious to all of us that you were not being honest and you're in fact a Christian. We challenged you to blaspheme the Holy Trinity just to make sure that you're really what you claimed to be.

You didn't reply by admitting you were a Christian. You continued representing yourself as an atheist but you made it seem like blasphemy was such a difficult thing to do. You put ridiculous conditions on us before you would even consider whether to blaspheme.

To this day, you continue to represent yourself as an atheist. Your signature contains the words "Honour the truth". I'm appealing to you to be truthful. If you are a Christian (which is what everyone believes you to be), can you please refrain from telling lies that you are an atheist and can you stop the dishonesty and just admit the truth that you are a Christian? I'm only appealing to you to be honest. Telling lies will not endear you to anyone nor will it make your cause any more respectable.

I hope you will consider this carefully and do the right thing - own up to a lie if you have lied and set the record straight. Jesus would want you to be honest - think about it.

Dear greneknight,

Thank you for your kind and respectful post. It was a refreshing change from the status quo that your posting has become. You are forgiven for being rude. I hold no ill will towards you. I take it you want me to say that I am a Christian. As a way of coercing me to admit I am a Christian (or possibly just to test my allegiance to atheism), you want me to take the blasphemy challenge. I am pleased and impressed by the kindness and generosity you have extended towards me in this post. I find it touching and sincerely hope it continues.

I first heard people whispering that I was a Christian, a number of days ago. As the rumors kept spreading, more and more people bought into them. It turned into outright accusations and heated rhetoric. I heard a few attempts to blaspheme Jesus and the Christian(?) God. Perhaps in an attempt to rile me up or offend me. And then, I believe, came the blasphemy challenge. As the calls to blaspheme grew louder, my conditions grew firmer. I even set a deadline for my conditions to be met. Unfortunately, those who called for me to blaspheme did not take my conditions seriously.

You see, when I heard the whispers of me being a Christian, I honestly felt a sinking feeling. What gave that impression? Why were they being so hostile? Why was I being rejected? Did I get caught? Was I going to be in trouble? It was funny to me, how a little internet community, little more than pixels on a 1020p widescreen monitor with excellent contrast ratio at a low price thanks to a great sale at Walmart back in 2011, had such a grip on my feelings. Ugh. I couldn't sleep for at least two days. I woke up dreary and haggard. My eyes felt heavy. My shoulders dropped. I lost my appetite. I felt terrible. To be honest, all this might have also been the result of last night's curry. Don't blame yourself.

But do you want to know the truth? I'll tell you the truth: It's one thing to insult me, think I am a Christian, troll me, roll me, turn me up and bowl me, accuse me, use me, eat me cake and choose me, harass me, gas me, wear my pants and sass me.

But it's another thing to coerce me. Into anything. Even if I wanna do it, freely, willingly. The very act of somebody trying to force you, or challenge you, or somehow manipulate or threaten you into doing anything, even if it's something you wanted to do, is something I'm not cool with. I want to do something because I want to do it, not because someone else is violating my own free will and personal agency to get me to do it. That's not cool.

As a way to make it less coerced, and make it more balanced, more quid pro quo, I introduced my own conditions: Where instead of someone else demanding something of me, we cooperated with each other and gave each other what we wanted.

But, you didn't keep up your end of the bargain. This turned a good faith discussion into, unfortunately, a bad-faith one. You would not respect my conditions, yet you expected, even tried to coerce me into respecting yours. Not cool, bro. Not cool.

Now let's set the record straight: I take it, you're not interested in me pledging allegiance to some religion that I very likely don't even subscribe to. You are more interested in finding out the truth.

Let me know if you want to make this consensual. A quid pro quo. Two friends, helping each other out, rather than engaging in coercion, bad-faith moves and all that negativity. Keep in mind, I actually want to come out with the truth. So right now, that's all I want to know. Keep me posted.

The person formerly known as Vinny.

Hi Vinny,

Yes, I do want to know the truth. I can understand what you are saying about refusing to blaspheme not because you're a secret Christian but because you didn't want to be coerced into something. Your signature at the bottom says "Honour the truth". Yes, I do want to know the truth.

I'm not saying now that you told a lie when you represented yourself as an atheist. But honestly, that is the impression I got but if you will be open about your beliefs, I will accept what you say openly without being evasive. People have said I'm an atheist but I have NEVER lied about my beliefs or lack of belief. I maintain I'm a Christian because I'm a member of God's Holy Church and my church and prelates accept me as a Christian. But I'm open about the fact that my definition of God is a mere metaphor for goodness and not a supernatural being. I have not concealed the fact that I don't accept anything supernatural or superstitious (the two words being perfectly synonymous in my view). If my beliefs fall under the category of "atheist", that's fine. I always have the highest regard for atheists anyway and I find the title an honour in itself. But I have to be honest in declaring myself a Christian because I am one and the Church accepts me as one and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England, possibly by the Archbishop of Canterbury himself (or so my friends are trying to arrange!!!).

I believe in being open about things. There was a time when I would lie on forums and pretend to be older than my real age. But that's because some forums have age limits or people think ill of you if you're on the young side so I used to pretend to be anything from 25 to 40. It was when I pretended to be a 40 year old professor in English in Jesus' College, Oxford that an old woman fell for me and insisted on meeting me. She said she would wait for me at "my" College just to have lunch with me! After that experience, I decided to be truthful. It's very hard to maintain a lie - that's my experience.

Yes, I would be delighted if you could openly state your religious position and affiliation. But if you want to keep it a secret, that's fine too but just let me know you want to keep it a secret and not tell me a long story, at the end of which I'm left wondering what it is you really are up to.

Have a pleasant day!

(September 6, 2012 at 8:11 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Hey Raph, do you still think mathematics is not assumed?

Theoretical mathematics is what it says on the tin. Nothing is to be taken for anything more than a theory.

Mathematics not firmly in the realm of the theoretical, that is a proven system that encompasses multiplication, addition, division and more makes no assumptions and has proven relevance in the physical world.
It is demonstrably not an assumption.

I sincerely hope that whatever "evidence" you are about to present confronts all of these things and isn't simply another attempt to sidetrack the thread with the unrelated and the misquoted.

---

(September 7, 2012 at 12:30 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote:

(September 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm)greneknight Wrote: Hi Vinny,

Please forgive me if I was rude. I had to be because you deliberately refused to answer what is so obvious to all of us. You came to this forum representing yourself as an atheist. You claimed to be a rational atheist who found theism reasonable. After a few posts, it became obvious to all of us that you were not being honest and you're in fact a Christian. We challenged you to blaspheme the Holy Trinity just to make sure that you're really what you claimed to be.

You didn't reply by admitting you were a Christian. You continued representing yourself as an atheist but you made it seem like blasphemy was such a difficult thing to do. You put ridiculous conditions on us before you would even consider whether to blaspheme.

To this day, you continue to represent yourself as an atheist. Your signature contains the words "Honour the truth". I'm appealing to you to be truthful. If you are a Christian (which is what everyone believes you to be), can you please refrain from telling lies that you are an atheist and can you stop the dishonesty and just admit the truth that you are a Christian? I'm only appealing to you to be honest. Telling lies will not endear you to anyone nor will it make your cause any more respectable.

I hope you will consider this carefully and do the right thing - own up to a lie if you have lied and set the record straight. Jesus would want you to be honest - think about it.

Dear greneknight,

Thank you for your kind and respectful post. It was a refreshing change from the status quo that your posting has become. You are forgiven for being rude. I hold no ill will towards you. I take it you want me to say that I am a Christian. As a way of coercing me to admit I am a Christian (or possibly just to test my allegiance to atheism), you want me to take the blasphemy challenge. I am pleased and impressed by the kindness and generosity you have extended towards me in this post. I find it touching and sincerely hope it continues.

I first heard people whispering that I was a Christian, a number of days ago. As the rumors kept spreading, more and more people bought into them. It turned into outright accusations and heated rhetoric. I heard a few attempts to blaspheme Jesus and the Christian(?) God. Perhaps in an attempt to rile me up or offend me. And then, I believe, came the blasphemy challenge. As the calls to blaspheme grew louder, my conditions grew firmer. I even set a deadline for my conditions to be met. Unfortunately, those who called for me to blaspheme did not take my conditions seriously.

You see, when I heard the whispers of me being a Christian, I honestly felt a sinking feeling. What gave that impression? Why were they being so hostile? Why was I being rejected? Did I get caught? Was I going to be in trouble? It was funny to me, how a little internet community, little more than pixels on a 1020p widescreen monitor with excellent contrast ratio at a low price thanks to a great sale at Walmart back in 2011, had such a grip on my feelings. Ugh. I couldn't sleep for at least two days. I woke up dreary and haggard. My eyes felt heavy. My shoulders dropped. I lost my appetite. I felt terrible. To be honest, all this might have also been the result of last night's curry. Don't blame yourself.

But do you want to know the truth? I'll tell you the truth: It's one thing to insult me, think I am a Christian, troll me, roll me, turn me up and bowl me, accuse me, use me, eat me cake and choose me, harass me, gas me, wear my pants and sass me.

But it's another thing to coerce me. Into anything. Even if I wanna do it, freely, willingly. The very act of somebody trying to force you, or challenge you, or somehow manipulate or threaten you into doing anything, even if it's something you wanted to do, is something I'm not cool with. I want to do something because I want to do it, not because someone else is violating my own free will and personal agency to get me to do it. That's not cool.

As a way to make it less coerced, and make it more balanced, more quid pro quo, I introduced my own conditions: Where instead of someone else demanding something of me, we cooperated with each other and gave each other what we wanted.

But, you didn't keep up your end of the bargain. This turned a good faith discussion into, unfortunately, a bad-faith one. You would not respect my conditions, yet you expected, even tried to coerce me into respecting yours. Not cool, bro. Not cool.

Now let's set the record straight: I take it, you're not interested in me pledging allegiance to some religion that I very likely don't even subscribe to. You are more interested in finding out the truth.

Let me know if you want to make this consensual. A quid pro quo. Two friends, helping each other out, rather than engaging in coercion, bad-faith moves and all that negativity. Keep in mind, I actually want to come out with the truth. So right now, that's all I want to know. Keep me posted.

The person formerly known as Vinny.

Translation; "I might be into a quasi-religion that uses psuedo-philosophy in an attempt to back up all of my claims.
I'm not going to be upfront about it because honestly, where would the fun in that be? No I'm going to drag this out as much as I possibly can so I can get more renown. Obviously it'll be negative renown that will classify me as "full of shit" but who cares?
Just as long as I can be centre of attention. Thats what fills me with the warm fuzzy feeling I crave so much.

How dare you demand openness when I state my views! What an infringement on my human rights! Look how emotional I am!
Maybe I can even make myself out to be the victim of cyber-bullying as opposed to me simply being a patronising asshat who reaps what he sews. This will feed the martyr complex I am obviously suffering from, why is being so intelligent such a curse? Why must they badger me with these "lines of rational enquiry"? Can't they see my obvious brilliance?
I think I'll try to compliment him on being intelligent. At the same time I'll try to pin all the dick moves and logical fallacies I have employed that have earnt me scorn and mockery from everyone else onto him.
Yeah, that'll get him on my side."

This theatre for free. I feel privileged.

---

(September 6, 2012 at 11:28 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I believe I'm already on record somewhere as to what I think he is.

I know what you're thinking and I'm fairly certain everyone else meant in respect to his religion.
What you had in mind is just offensive... accurate but offensive.

Then I withdraw the statement, gracefully. Not sure what you had in mind for what I had in mind though.

(September 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Then I withdraw the statement, gracefully. Not sure what you had in mind for what I had in mind though.

You may not be sure what you had in mind for what he had in mind, but I can tell you that I am very clear on what I have in mind that you have in mind that he has in mind for what you have in mind.

Clear enough?

(September 7, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(September 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Then I withdraw the statement, gracefully. Not sure what you had in mind for what I had in mind though.

You may not be sure what you had in mind for what he had in mind, but I can tell you that I am very clear on what I have in mind that you have in mind that he has in mind for what you have in mind.

Clear enough?

It seems to me that if you were clear on what you have in mind that I have in mind for what he has in mind then my and his mind would be clear as to what you have in mind for what I have in mind and what I have in mind for what he has in mind.

On a side note; breasticles.

Both replies are crystal clear. We're clearly of one mind about what I may have had in mind, which I was in two minds about posting in case anyone minded. Mind you, since what you both had in mind regarding what I had in mind seems to match what I had in mind to post when it was on my mind then I am more settled in my mind that what I had in mind that you had in mind that I might have had in mind was clear enough without me having to actually share what I had in mind, since it was in everyone's mind already.

---

And what a delightful way to mark my twenty-ninth century. I got the next medal in the bag.

(September 7, 2012 at 1:31 am)greneknight Wrote:

(September 7, 2012 at 12:30 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote:

Dear greneknight,

Thank you for your kind and respectful post. It was a refreshing change from the status quo that your posting has become. You are forgiven for being rude. I hold no ill will towards you. I take it you want me to say that I am a Christian. As a way of coercing me to admit I am a Christian (or possibly just to test my allegiance to atheism), you want me to take the blasphemy challenge. I am pleased and impressed by the kindness and generosity you have extended towards me in this post. I find it touching and sincerely hope it continues.

I first heard people whispering that I was a Christian, a number of days ago. As the rumors kept spreading, more and more people bought into them. It turned into outright accusations and heated rhetoric. I heard a few attempts to blaspheme Jesus and the Christian(?) God. Perhaps in an attempt to rile me up or offend me. And then, I believe, came the blasphemy challenge. As the calls to blaspheme grew louder, my conditions grew firmer. I even set a deadline for my conditions to be met. Unfortunately, those who called for me to blaspheme did not take my conditions seriously.

You see, when I heard the whispers of me being a Christian, I honestly felt a sinking feeling. What gave that impression? Why were they being so hostile? Why was I being rejected? Did I get caught? Was I going to be in trouble? It was funny to me, how a little internet community, little more than pixels on a 1020p widescreen monitor with excellent contrast ratio at a low price thanks to a great sale at Walmart back in 2011, had such a grip on my feelings. Ugh. I couldn't sleep for at least two days. I woke up dreary and haggard. My eyes felt heavy. My shoulders dropped. I lost my appetite. I felt terrible. To be honest, all this might have also been the result of last night's curry. Don't blame yourself.

But do you want to know the truth? I'll tell you the truth: It's one thing to insult me, think I am a Christian, troll me, roll me, turn me up and bowl me, accuse me, use me, eat me cake and choose me, harass me, gas me, wear my pants and sass me.

But it's another thing to coerce me. Into anything. Even if I wanna do it, freely, willingly. The very act of somebody trying to force you, or challenge you, or somehow manipulate or threaten you into doing anything, even if it's something you wanted to do, is something I'm not cool with. I want to do something because I want to do it, not because someone else is violating my own free will and personal agency to get me to do it. That's not cool.

As a way to make it less coerced, and make it more balanced, more quid pro quo, I introduced my own conditions: Where instead of someone else demanding something of me, we cooperated with each other and gave each other what we wanted.

But, you didn't keep up your end of the bargain. This turned a good faith discussion into, unfortunately, a bad-faith one. You would not respect my conditions, yet you expected, even tried to coerce me into respecting yours. Not cool, bro. Not cool.

Now let's set the record straight: I take it, you're not interested in me pledging allegiance to some religion that I very likely don't even subscribe to. You are more interested in finding out the truth.

Let me know if you want to make this consensual. A quid pro quo. Two friends, helping each other out, rather than engaging in coercion, bad-faith moves and all that negativity. Keep in mind, I actually want to come out with the truth. So right now, that's all I want to know. Keep me posted.

The person formerly known as Vinny.

Hi Vinny,

Yes, I do want to know the truth. I can understand what you are saying about refusing to blaspheme not because you're a secret Christian but because you didn't want to be coerced into something. Your signature at the bottom says "Honour the truth". Yes, I do want to know the truth.

I'm not saying now that you told a lie when you represented yourself as an atheist. But honestly, that is the impression I got but if you will be open about your beliefs, I will accept what you say openly without being evasive. People have said I'm an atheist but I have NEVER lied about my beliefs or lack of belief. I maintain I'm a Christian because I'm a member of God's Holy Church and my church and prelates accept me as a Christian. But I'm open about the fact that my definition of God is a mere metaphor for goodness and not a supernatural being. I have not concealed the fact that I don't accept anything supernatural or superstitious (the two words being perfectly synonymous in my view). If my beliefs fall under the category of "atheist", that's fine. I always have the highest regard for atheists anyway and I find the title an honour in itself. But I have to be honest in declaring myself a Christian because I am one and the Church accepts me as one and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England, possibly by the Archbishop of Canterbury himself (or so my friends are trying to arrange!!!).

I believe in being open about things. There was a time when I would lie on forums and pretend to be older than my real age. But that's because some forums have age limits or people think ill of you if you're on the young side so I used to pretend to be anything from 25 to 40. It was when I pretended to be a 40 year old professor in English in Jesus' College, Oxford that an old woman fell for me and insisted on meeting me. She said she would wait for me at "my" College just to have lunch with me! After that experience, I decided to be truthful. It's very hard to maintain a lie - that's my experience.

Yes, I would be delighted if you could openly state your religious position and affiliation. But if you want to keep it a secret, that's fine too but just let me know you want to keep it a secret and not tell me a long story, at the end of which I'm left wondering what it is you really are up to.

Have a pleasant day!

Hey greneknight,

Are you looking for me to openly state my religious/irreligious affiliation, or are there certain limits on what the answer to that question can be? The impression I get is that there is only one acceptable answer for you, and that is the answer that confirms your hypothesis.

Does this mean the only answer you will accept is the answer you have determined to be correct?

TPFKAV