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For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 11:53 am
So, now even baboons adhere to some objective morality...
in
sciencemag.org - For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
Just the first few paragraphs:
Quote:Baboons, like people, really do get by with a little help from their friends. Humans with strong social ties live longer, healthier lives, whereas hostility and "loner" tendencies can set the stage for disease and early death. In animals, too, strong social networks contribute to longer lives and healthier offspring—and now it seems that personality may be just as big a factor in other primates' longevity status. A new study found that female baboons that had the most stable relationships with other females weren't always the highest up in the dominance hierarchy or the ones with close kin around—but they were the nicest.
Scientists are increasingly seeing personality as a key factor in an animal's ability to survive, adapt, and thrive in its environment. But this topic isn't an easy one to study scientifically, says primatologist Dorothy Cheney of the University of Pennsylvania. "Research in mammals, birds, fish, and insects shows individual patterns of behavior that can't be easily explained. But the many studies of personality are based on human traits like conscientiousness, agreeableness, or neuroticism. It isn't clear how to apply those traits to animals," Cheney says.
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 12:21 pm
I like the nod to the difficulties of anthropomorphism.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 2:08 pm
So, next time some twat of a theist tells us that atheists have no moral compass, we can show them this, right?
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 2:13 pm
That makes a lot of sense. Working together makes it a lot easier to survive in order to propagate the species. 
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 2:31 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2012 at 2:32 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(October 2, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Annik Wrote: That makes a lot of sense. Working together makes it a lot easier to survive in order to propagate the species.
If that were true, then all species would be highly social and cooperative. They are not. Clearly, there is no universal winning strategy from which can be derived any "objective morality". Being hostile loners work better for some species, cooporative living work better for others.
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 2:32 pm
I never said it was true for all things.
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 3:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2012 at 3:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Being a hostile loner even works for some individuals in otherwise friendly, social groups. Even more amusingly, what worked yesterday may not work tomorrow.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 3:53 pm
I think most species have a bit of a social balancing act. They still need to basically take care of themselves first but they also have to have some concern for the welfare of others in their species. So as much as humans are social creatures, you're going to spend a month locked in a room with a stranger and there's only enough food for one of you, I think most people would put their own well being over his.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 4:12 pm
(October 2, 2012 at 11:53 am)pocaracas Wrote: So, now even baboons adhere to some subjective morality...
Fixed that for you.
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RE: For Some Primates, Survival of the Nicest
October 2, 2012 at 5:58 pm
(October 2, 2012 at 2:31 pm)Chuck Wrote: (October 2, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Annik Wrote: That makes a lot of sense. Working together makes it a lot easier to survive in order to propagate the species.
If that were true, then all species would be highly social and cooperative. They are not. Clearly, there is no universal winning strategy from which can be derived any "objective morality". Being hostile loners work better for some species, cooporative living work better for others.
Our morality might actually threaten our species in the end . But don't worry a few selfish ones will survive. Then they , in time , will sucumb to those who co-operate and the beautiful ying and yang of survival will continue in the same way as it will always have done.
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