(October 8, 2012 at 10:31 am)Tino Wrote: You still haven't answered why Krishna requires worship (to which you've committed your life)(5th request), nor did you address any of my other points.

I did actually answer this, a while back in this thread.

The ontological relationship between individual souls and God is of servant and served. It's our eternal duty (dharma) to serve God. When we do that, we can achieve lasting happiness. When we don't, we have to suffer the misery of this world.

---

(October 8, 2012 at 10:27 am)Darwinian Wrote: Prove it!

I do prove it. All the time. Every day.

I have no obligation or duties towards a mythical entity. You can do whatever you like, obviously, but count me out of this particular fantasy. Strangely, I don't find myself suffering any "misery of this world". Maybe you should look into that?

"Proving it" all day every day, except here, rgr?

(October 8, 2012 at 10:31 am)Tino Wrote: "We" is the scientific community at large.

I'm inviting you to access the knowledge that is freely available to you on the lack of evidence for any supernatural claims. Your religion is one who asks people to accept an authority.

You're asking me to accept the "scientific community at large" - but why should I? It sounds like your religion is asking me to accept an authority too. Why? Aren't all authorities bad and suspect?

You're telling me there's a lack of evidence, but I know there is an abundance of evidence. What it sounds like to me is that it's not evident to you. But then how does it follow that it's not evident to me?

---

(October 8, 2012 at 10:39 am)Rhythm Wrote: I have no obligation or duties towards a mythical entity. You can do whatever you like, obviously, but count me out of this particular fantasy. Strangely, I don't find myself suffering any "misery of this world". Maybe you should look into that?

"Proving it" all day every day, except here, rgr?

You have an obligation to get old and die. Whoever, or whatever, is in charge and makes the rules, it's not you. So you can rebel as hard as you want - but ultimately we're all forced to submit to powers higher than ourselves.

I think it's awesome that you've never had a bad day, and that you get everything you want. I sincerely hope that keeps working out for you.

Sorry, I just have to point out that calling God a "fantasy" is, again, unfortunately not a scientific statement. It is a statement about your faith and your feelings. Not science. Just want to be clear on that.

Once again, I've never - not once - said I would prove the existence of God to you. Or anyone on this forum. That doesn't mean the existence of God hasn't been proven to me.

In a simple way, Any scientific find can be reproduced, given the proper methodology. I'm wonder if you ever had a good scientific education.

Your belief does not. There isn't a method, to reproduce 'god' experiences, but one thing I know, our mind is fallible. I once got filled with joy on a concert, does that mean that Iron Maiden is god?

(October 8, 2012 at 10:42 am)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: You have an obligation to get old and die. Whoever, or whatever, is in charge and makes the rules, it's not you. So you can rebel as hard as you want - but ultimately we're all forced to submit to powers higher than ourselves.

I have no such obligation. You're confusing the working of a machine with obligation and duty. I have no choice but to grow old and die, but it isn't some obligation I toil under. You're assuming some one/what is in charge, why you make this assumption eludes me. Even if some one/what were in charge why, praytell, would I have any obligation towards wtf that was? Again, I have no obligation, nor is my death submission to any higher power, it's just the end of my life. For whatever reason you've invested large amounts of fantasy into this, I haven't.

Quote:I think it's awesome that you've never had a bad day, and that you get everything you want. I sincerely hope that keeps working out for you.

LOL< from "The misery of this life" to "a bad day"...oh how these claims shrink when exposed to questioning. Who's talking about bad days? Oh, I see, you just like saying things that sound pretty (to you). Yet another peddler of platitudes.

Quote:Sorry, I just have to point out that calling God a "fantasy" is, again, unfortunately not a scientific statement. It is a statement about your faith and your feelings. Not science. Just want to be clear on that.

Stop right there Mr Scientific. You're the one that introduced doubt about what science could explain. Who cares if it's a "scientific statement" after that? Surely not you, right? God remains fantasy regardless of whether or not I have faith, or my feelings on the matter. Just so we're clear.

Quote:Once again, I've never - not once - said I would prove the existence of God to you. Or anyone on this forum. That doesn't mean the existence of God hasn't been proven to me.

I suppose that's convenient for you, that you'd like to tell us all about god, but would also like to remove any obligation to support your fantasies from the word go. Do you imagine that whatever "proved god" to you would be sufficient for me? If this "provenening" occurs, do you imagine that I would become some sort of adherent by default (spoiler: I would not). I know that my neighbor exists, for example...but my home is strangely lacking altars to his Neighborliness.

(October 8, 2012 at 10:50 am)LastPoet Wrote: In a simple way, Any scientific find can be reproduced, given the proper methodology. I'm wonder if you ever had a good scientific education.

Your belief does not. There isn't a method, to reproduce 'god' experiences, but one thing I know, our mind is fallible. I once got filled with joy on a concert, does that mean that Iron Maiden is god?

The rules of how things get proven in science are great. That doesn't mean they're absolute. Science can't prove that the scientific method produces truth. It accepts that point as "self evident", as a given.

My experience of God's existence can be reproduced. And in fact it is - and that's why millions of people worship God.

Again, God's existence is self-evident in the experience of having a relationship with Him. I take it that, as joyful as I'm sure it was, you didn't experience Iron Maiden as God... so, not really the same thing, sorry.

It can be reproduced, but you won't be doing that, amiright?
(you're greatly confused about the relationship between science and truth, btw)

(October 8, 2012 at 10:50 am)LastPoet Wrote: one thing I know, our mind is fallible.

That sounds like a good reason to be suspect of all kinds of things, not just religious claims. If humanity is equipped only with fallible minds, for example, why would our science be infallible?

God is infallible. His authority is perfect. When we accept truth from Him, there's no risk of being tricked by the infallibility of the human mind.

Care to support that claim?
(science isn't infallible btw, and last I checked it made no claims to that effect)

(October 8, 2012 at 11:07 am)Rhythm Wrote: It can be reproduced, but you won't be doing that, amiright?
(you're greatly confused about the relationship between science and truth, btw)

You can prove it to too, if you're willing to subject yourself to the standard methodologies of seeking God. If you're really not interested, I don't see how anyone can help you.

God is free to interact with the universe according to His own criterion. He's not forced to interact with the universe according to your standards, or the standards of science. He's free to reveal Himself according to His own standards.

Thus, knowing God is an entirely different type of experiment than, say, looking at small organisms under a microscope.