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Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:09 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 2:11 pm by Mystic.)
Earned value/praise is greater then unearned value/praise.
That's the basic premise that lead me to disbelieve in "God". See the thread in Philosophy section for details.
However I'm inclined to existence in a soul and a higher power, but have to admit I don't know and it's not a belief, just an inclination.
It just seems that to be the same person I am as a baby till now, I have to have a soul or else it's more like tree from a seed, the seed is not the tree, but is the foundation of the tree. And it seems like we strongly believe we are the same person because we are a soul.
But it's not a strong argument.
Hmm....so now I'm agnostic with an inclination to believe in a higher power + soul.
I wouldn't say I truly believe in soul + higher power, which makes one of you guys (I'm allergic to the word) in a sense, just that I'm inclined to favouring the idea. Call it a hunch.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm
MysticKnight Wrote:Earned value/praise is greater then unearned value/praise.
What exactly do you mean by this?
MysticKnight Wrote:It just seems that to be the same person I am as a baby till now...
How so?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:27 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 2:27 pm by Mystic.)
(October 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm)Faith No More Wrote: MysticKnight Wrote:Earned value/praise is greater then unearned value/praise.
What exactly do you mean by this?
Well take an example. In Islam, Angels were believed to be good and obedient to God. However they did nothing to earn their goodness.
They simply were created infallible. They are incapable of doing evil. So their good nature is not earned.
A human has to struggle against evil. He has to earn the goodness.
Therefore Muslims valued the goodness of humans over that of Angels, because humans earn that good.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm
 Well, okay, I'm not that surprised, but I still find this unexpected. Most people, atheists and theists alike, consider agnosticism to be a respectable postition, as do I. The existence of a 'higher power' is a much more plausible scenario than claiming a specific god, or that said god is absolute perfection in every way. If I may ask, why does it hurt? I am not saying that you shouldn't care; I am merely wondering as to why you personally are disapointed in your uncertainty.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm)Faith No More Wrote: MysticKnight Wrote:It just seems that to be the same person I am as a baby till now... How so?
I mean despite me changing and being of totally different traits now to that of a baby, I'm the same person, I'm not a different entity. This the hunch feeling and it's how humans treat their children as adults, believing they are the same being as that baby they raised.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 2:34 pm by Darkstar.)
(October 26, 2012 at 2:27 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: [Well take an example. In Islam, Angels were believed to be good and obedient to God. However they did nothing to earn their goodness.
They simply were created infallible. They are incapable of doing evil. So their good nature is not earned.
A human has to struggle against evil. He has to earn the goodness.
Therefore Muslims valued the goodness of humans over that of Angels, because humans earn that good.
Ironically, it seems that christians value the infalliable 'good' of Yahweh far above any good they do themselves. And Yahweh isn't even good...
(October 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I mean despite me changing and being of totally different traits now to that of a baby, I'm the same person, I'm not a different entity. This the hunch feeling and it's how humans treat their children as adults, believing they are the same being as that baby they raised.
Could the brain be responsible for this? When people argue for the soul, they typically say that the soul is the software running on the hardware that is the brain, which is why it looks like the brain is responsible. It is simply the fact that no solid evidence has ever been presented to support this claim that I don't believe it. Now, if you are saying you have a hunch, then...that is within reasonable boundaries, as opposed to claiming to know for a fact there is a soul.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:36 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 2:36 pm by Faith No More.)
(October 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I mean despite me changing and being of totally different traits now to that of a baby, I'm the same person, I'm not a different entity. This the hunch feeling and it's how humans treat their children as adults, believing they are the same being as that baby they raised.
Think of your brain as a hard drive that simply has new information stored onto it over and over. This collection of this information is what gives you a continuous sense of self, all because you are writing new informatin in the same place you have stored old information. Why is the soul necessary for that?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 2:48 pm by Mystic.)
There is no proof I'm aware of, it's a hunch, I don't claim to believe it let alone know it. Not saying no one can know, just that I don't.
(October 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Darkstar Wrote: If I may ask, why does it hurt?
Well not knowing for sure that humans are in good hands, that they will continue to live, is sad. I'm not just sad that I don't know I will continue to live, but that I'm not sure humans in general will.
Children whom die, animals that die... etc, it's all very sad.
As well, as believing there was ultimate great being, I felt delight at it existing.
So this hurts a lot.
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Once upon a time I though that bunnies left me chocolates in bushes cleverly concealed in plastic eggs. It's just so sad that they don't....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Truth hurts...
October 26, 2012 at 11:12 pm
The question of the existence of a persistent self is a difficult one. In classical context, it gives rise to the paradox known as The Ship Of Theseus. And then there's the Buddhist doctrine of Anatta, that there is "no self." The Buddhist point is argued well, and I would gather is worth studying, even if ultimately fruitless. (I am just starting my studies now; I have a good book on the subject, but it's $50+, so probably not for the merely curious.) I've been introduced to Heidegger's existentialism in the past year, and while he doesn't directly answer this complaint, his analysis of the ontology of beings is very powerful.
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