(November 3, 2012 at 9:24 am)John V Wrote:

(November 3, 2012 at 8:27 am)Waratah Wrote: What a joke you are really. Think about it. YOU make a stupid fucking statement. YOUR statement YOUR proof needed so please start backing up with facts instead of your weak posts. Do you see now NO SHIFT of burden. It really is simple, even for you.

I noted a correlation, admittedly took it too far with the 2+2=4 statement, but then agreed with respondents that correlation doesn't prove causation. I never went on to say that causation could be proven in this case. I merely noted that correlation can give an idea to be explored. I've been quite reasonable in the thread.

What statement exactly am I supposed to back up with facts?

So why can't you answer German's question you fucking idiot instead of avoiding it. Your question deserves no response since you stated your statement. derrr.

A problem with christanity, is that it like all the Abrahamic religions, divides the world into black and white, right and wrong. No grey areas, no nuances.

America benefited from the fracturing of protestant churches, which meant a lack of central control, but as christianity in America has coalesced, christians as a group seek to impose one set of values in a dictatorial and black and white manor.
In truth the because of this it could be said christianity as a force for good or bad councils itself out,over time, and in truth is irrelevant, but for one effect, which is that Americans culturally tend to view things in a very black and white way, goodies and baddies, those with the white hats verse black hats.
Thus Americans have a tendency to have arguments like we are the best, no we are the worst, everybody hates us, everybody wants to be us, We are at the top, no everybody else is doing it right.
The problem with this way of thinking is that it works against fixing problems. When a motor is misfiring, it is probably because of a small detail, like the spark-plug needs changing. Not it is a bad engine throw it away, or it is a good engine it does not need to work.
I must admit that on an atheist forum I find it surprising, so many American atheists have not analysed this feature of of their culture which has its roots in christianity, and still perpetuate this thinking.

(November 3, 2012 at 10:23 am)Waratah Wrote:

(November 3, 2012 at 9:24 am)John V Wrote: I noted a correlation, admittedly took it too far with the 2+2=4 statement, but then agreed with respondents that correlation doesn't prove causation. I never went on to say that causation could be proven in this case. I merely noted that correlation can give an idea to be explored. I've been quite reasonable in the thread.

What statement exactly am I supposed to back up with facts?

So why can't you answer German's question you fucking idiot instead of avoiding it. Your question deserves no response since you stated your statement. derrr.

I agreed that my original statement was in error. Why would I try to support a statement which I've admitted was in error? That makes no sense.

(November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am)John V Wrote: Why? What percent of our economy is affected by such beliefs? Atheists tend to claim that they only believe based on evidence. So far we have unsubstantiated claims with no evidence offered.

Demanding that something that is obviously false be taught in public schools isn't bad enough? I find this view incredible. As for the economic effects, what do you think the result will be if the advance of science is blocked at every turn by people who say that their faith says roadblocks must be put up? Will advances in areas such as stem cell research that may improve quality of life be done in this country? Or will it be forced overseas? How will we create new technologies when there is a serious disgust in the view towards scientists? Are they playing God when they push our understanding of the universe?

Of course this isn't entirely the fault of the religious. It is also because our country politically have become incredibly shortsighted. But the faith based are getting behind this apathy and giving it a push and this is not good for our future.

Quote:And I doubt the cheap labor would agree that they're cleaning our clocks.

They aren't being asked.

(November 2, 2012 at 5:03 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: So do you usualy outflank questions which you cant answere by asking other questions, in a desperate attempt to keep a highground?

(November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am)John V Wrote: No. I do tend to ask the same question of the opposition when a clear double standard is being used, though.

where am I using a double standerd? can you point that out with a qote?
do you understand the meaning of the words you are using?

Quote:Answere my question!!!

origins? evolution!? do you have any idea how importent biology and therefor evolution is for science and therefor for the economy?
biology is more than simply watching animals have sex!
ever heared of bionics or genetics!? do you know how importent scientific knowlege within such subjects is importent for a economic development?

Antibiotics, medical science in general, technical engeneering, - let`s just throw it all away and go back to living in the fucking stone age!

you people also reject physics! i am not an expert at that field, and actualy dont have much knowlege on it.
but as far as i know modern physics is based on the fact that the universe is billions of years old.
the same physics which developed the laptop you are using.

(November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am)John V Wrote: Please, this laptop could have been developed without belief that the universe is billions of years old or that life evolved.

so you dont denie that biology and therefor evolution is importent for an economy, or are you just to lazy to rebutle?

Oh I dont daught that some of youre kind would one day somehow find some Silicon or Quartz - but since you reject the notion of experiment you`d probably never find out what to do with it without some scientific help.

Do you know anything about physics? semiconductor electronics, doping (of semi conductors), microelectronics in general, electrodynamics?
Do you know the general laws behind electromagnetism? That electromagetic waves travel at the speed of light because they are light?

Physics is not some weird pile of rubish in which things which dont have any connection to another are thrown together. one theory and one conclusion leads to the establishment of other theories and conclusions - the various laws of physics hang together, like a puzzle.
reject one because you dont like it and you might aswell reject all!

(November 3, 2012 at 11:50 am)Utracia Wrote: Demanding that something that is obviously false be taught in public schools isn't bad enough? I find this view incredible.

Which obviously false things are being taught in which public schools?

Quote:As for the economic effects, what do you think the result will be if the advance of science is blocked at every turn by people who say that their faith says roadblocks must be put up?

How many Christians are trying to block science at every turn?

Quote:Will advances in areas such as stem cell research that may improve quality of life be done in this country? Or will it be forced overseas?

What's the effect to our economy from such research?

Quote:How will we create new technologies when there is a serious disgust in the view towards scientists? Are they playing God when they push our understanding of the universe?

Aren't something like 95% of American scientists atheists? How in the world do you conclude that Christians are stopping them from advances?

(November 3, 2012 at 1:22 pm)John V Wrote: Aren't something like 95% of American scientists atheists? How in the world do you conclude that Christians are stopping them from advances?

Legislating against work that they could do, using influence to withold funding that sort of thing.

Fundamentalist christian's are by nature intefering busy bodies that push their agenda whenever they can.

(November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am)John V Wrote:

(November 2, 2012 at 4:52 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Yep. So where's the connection?

I note that you're the one who implied a causal relationship between atheism and economic decline.

Interesting that you don't note that the OP implied a causal relationship between Christianity and economic decline without so much as a correlation.

Did he? Did you read the same OP that I did? Because in the OP I read, the OP asked a question as to the relationship between the two. I'll note that a question is different from an assertion in meaningful ways.

(November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am)John V Wrote:

(November 2, 2012 at 6:03 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Shift the burden of proof much?

Oh...my...goodness. Did you even read the OP?

Yep, I did. Did you? The OP did not make an assertion. You did (which I see that you've rightfully retracted).

(November 3, 2012 at 2:45 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Legislating against work that they could do, using influence to withold funding that sort of thing.

Such as? So far we've been given stem cell research, and no one has given any numbers regarding it. Are other nations becoming rich and powerful on stem cell research while America goes by the wayside without it?

Quote:Fundamentalist christian's are by nature intefering busy bodies that push their agenda whenever they can.

People are by nature intefering busy bodies that push their agenda whenever they can.