(November 15, 2012 at 12:47 pm)Darkstar Wrote: I don't have a specific exampe on hand (maybe someone else here does?), but the point is that even if I did, even if the person followed the path laid out in luke 11, if that person died having not found god you would still have some excuse to say why he didn't, wouldn't you?

I can say that if a person lived a life time earnestly A/S/K and did not find God then that person can still have the assureance that God indeed found Him. We are not all built the same way and not all of us will be given over to spiritual gifts. The one in particular that allows you to 'see' God, is a spiritual awareness. The fact that this person spent a life time searching for God is still a testament to God's promise in Luke 11. In that we have been promised a measure of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that establishes and Maintains Faith. to live a life searching means this person is faith to what he has been given. If the Holy Spirit only saw fit to give this person the wherewithall to simply search and he indeed did search his whole life then God will welcome him into his rest for his faithfulness to what he has been given. That is the crux of our end of the deal. We have to be faithful to what Ever God has given us. If this man has then God will not find fault with him. His Faith does not have to look like mine in order for him to be exaulted by God. That is why we have been allowed so Many different denominations/brands of christianity. Because if we are truly faithful to what we have been given, we will manifest different expressions of faith.

Quote: Can you imagine an instance in which you would admit that the path in luke 11 did not work, even though applied correctly and persistently? I cannot; you would deny that he followed it either by saying that he did it wrong outright, or, if he followed it to the letter, that he missed so hidden condition that was [somehow] implied somewhere in the bible.

The only time it will not work is if you do not hold up on your end of the deal if for whatever reason you stop Asking, seeking, knocking or are not giving all three all you have. I can by experience tell you God will let you flounder until do as you have been instructed.

(November 15, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Drich Wrote: I can say that if a person lived a life time earnestly A/S/K and did not find God then that person can still have the assureance that God indeed found Him.

This. I'm done trying to reason with you, sorry. This is exactly what I feared/knew you would say. You have just made A/S/King unfalsifiable. I knew you felt this way from the beginnning, but now I have it in writing.

(Also, searching for god your whole life is testament to nothing but desperacy/credulity)

You keep laying the blame on those who do not find the proof you promise (make no mistake, it's you making the promise..god is nowhere to be found) despite having some very simple examples of why this argument is bullshit being offered to you - with full knowledge that you aren't actually looking to consider the accuracy of the statements you so righteously excrete - from people who treat you as though you were capable of doing so even though you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are unwilling to do so - while blatantly disrespecting these boards.

To borrow something from Shell that has stuck with me since I first read it.

Fisher-of-men fail.

(November 15, 2012 at 12:50 pm)Drich Wrote: What I am providing is a way to get proof for those who want 'proof.' I am showing you a way for God to move mountains in your life to give you the 'proof' He promised.

Not exactly.
What you are doing is showing us how we can accept an extraordinary explanation for something that happens in our life, but to which we don't readily have an ordinary one.
You want me to appeal to a divine entity, when all I had was luck.
You want me to behave in a way that is approved by that divine entity, which may lead to some other fortunate (or lucky) event in my life... or not, who knows?... or if I don't behave that way, I'll have an even more fortunate event... or not, who knows?!


You want my mind to accept that an entity exists and, when that acceptance is complete, it will present itself to me in some far fetched way that I'll be compelled to accept as proof.... because I already accepted the existence of said entity.
Can you say "circular reasoning"?

Ultimately, you base your knowledge of this entity on what is written on a book. This book contains some cases of real physical interaction with this divine entity. Why must I resort to fooling myself first, when the people in the stories didn't require that?


PS: I don't know about other people's intelligence... mine is just a standard intelligence, no bells nor whistles... the kind that makes any internet IQ test show a 140... rather normal, I guess.

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(November 15, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't understand Drich's point of view at all btw Poca, because his point of view appears to be completely fucking insane...I am unable to understand a point of view that is completely fucking insane...due to my not being completely fucking insane.

I understand the premise: god exists and is the god of the christian bible.
Everything else is just: follow what is written in the bible.
Is that so difficult to understand?

But, just because I understand, it doesn't mean I agree with it. The premise seems faulty, hence everything else that comes after is faulty. If, for some amazing coincidence, some things that come out of it are not faulty...well, coincidence is just that. coincidence.

(November 15, 2012 at 1:09 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I understand the premise: god exists and is the god of the christian bible.
Everything else is just: follow what is written in the bible.
Is that so difficult to understand?

For me? Yes. Because every "step" involves magic. What about earnestly engaging in and waiting for the magic that Drich keeps telling us about is supposed to be understandable?

Quote:But, just because I understand, it doesn't mean I agree with it. The premise seems faulty, hence everything else that comes after is faulty. If, for some amazing coincidence, some things that come out of it are not faulty...well, coincidence is just that. coincidence.

And insane is just that, insane.

[quote='Rhythm' pid='363211' dateline='1352999180']
[quote]You keep laying the blame on those who do not find the proof you promise (make no mistake, it's you making the promise..god is nowhere to be found) [/quote]
God will always be found! Just maybe not in this life.

[quote]despite having some very simple examples of why this argument is bullshit being offered to you - with full knowledge that you aren't actually looking to consider the accuracy of the statements you so righteously excrete - from people who treat you as though you were capable of doing so even though you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are unwilling to do so - while blatantly disrespecting these boards.[/quote]You see death as an end. I see it as a birth. My over all view simply does not include the same end point you all seem to share. I am speaking on an eternaltime line and you all seem to want to end yours in the next 50 or 60 years.. (all except minny who maybe has 5 to 10 left in him .) So when I say you will indeed find God you will, (even if it is not in this life) When I say you will find proof for God You will. All of us will in the way of the Holy Spirit, find that proof in this life. (even if we do not understand all of it.)

[quote]Fisher-of-men fail.[/quote]
That is why I only ever strived to answer questions and provide clarity. I may not be a 'fisher of men' but can chop up the 'bait' into bite size pieces.

OT:

Quote:the kind that makes any internet IQ test show a 140..

An IQ of 140 is actually above the 98% of humanity. Nothing "standard" about it.

(November 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm)Drich Wrote: God will always be found! Just maybe not in this life.

Yet another one of your personal promises.

Quote:You see death as an end. I see it as a birth. My over all view simply does not include the same end point you all seem to share. I am speaking on an eternaltime line and you all seem to want to end yours in the next 50 or 60 years.. (all except minny who maybe has 5 to 10 left in him .) So when I say you will indeed find God you will, (even if it is not in this life) When I say you will find proof for God You will. All of us will in the way of the Holy Spirit, find that proof in this life. (even if we do not understand all of it.)

I love how you linked my post as though this repetitious little sermon was actually a response to it.

Quote:That is why I only ever strived to answer questions and provide clarity. I may not be a 'fisher of men' but can chop up the 'bait' into bite size pieces.

Chopping a turd into bite sized pieces does not make it any more appetizing to the fish.

(November 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm)Drich Wrote: You see death as an end. I see it as a birth.

I said I gave up, but I'm too persistent for my own good sometimes. I suppose you might provide some evidence for this claim? Oh, wait, the bible specifically said that the dead could not tell the living about the afterlife because they wouldn't believe them if they didn't believe other alleged miracles. Wait...that sounds kind of like Muhammad's excuse for not showing any proof...

I guess we'll have to wait until someone "raises from the dead" to figure out whether or not that little biblical gem is accurate. Hell, at the moment it doesn't appear to be so, because even though the story of christ is complete bullshit...it has convinced a great many people. In fact...it's often pointed to as -the most- convincing utterance in the whole sordid snuff story. No one even gives a shit about fucking "Moses" or some random "prophets".., there's an active attempt to distance the faith from either.