(January 22, 2013 at 7:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Do you not understand the Hebrew usage of the term young people?

Don't start this shit again. Reputable translators have repeatedly used the phrase "children" or "young boys" or "little fuckheads" for that matter.
The point is that your fucking 'god' sends a couple of bears to KILL THEM.

I suspect you should focus on little more on that and a little less on trying to get your fucking god off the hook for murdering children, dickhead.

I repeat, you are a sanctimonious prick.

Fuck your god.

Yeah good grief that "God" sent a flood that killed every man woman and child in the world -- except for Noah and his family. Even the children and little babies of the "bad" people needed to die a horrible death

The Old Testament God was pretty brutal compared to the New Testament God.

Fortunately for us God only did these things a long long long long lonnnnng time ago!!!!! It's not like somebody made it all up! Or a whole bunch of different people....

Except... assuming the impossible -- that the people who made up the Old Testament -- created a God that gets angry and kills people. And that people who made up the New Testament -- created a forgiving God -- who allowed people to break the Ten Commandments and go to heaven anyway.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:14 am)Drich Wrote: Do you not understand the Hebrew usage of the term young people?

Why are we still quibbling about this, as though it's the age of the murder victims that makes this good or bad?

It's not the "children" part of the phrase "god killed some children" that is at the root of its moral failing, after all.

(January 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm)Drich Wrote: Again The love you speak of is conditional. The Love offered is limitless, however no one is entitled to this love, just because they are alive. As proven by the 42 kids/piles of bear poo left after them.

The love I offer my son is conditional too. O wait, not it's not ... not at all.

Well whadaya-know, I'm already better than your own god.
In fact does ANYONE - ANYWHERE know of ANYONE, who has ever even heard of anyone who spoke of a "perfect love" that was conditional? No?
Just some filthy internet apologist with no education and his own unfounded theories? Yep.

By the way Drich, I told my wife's father, who is the pastor of his Christian Reform Church all about this conditional love you're trying to sell, and he was outraged. Don't get me wrong, I don't give a shit about what he thinks either, but he's a damn fine bit more educated in theology than you are and he accused you of violating your god's promise to the world .... probably only because he didn't want to outright call you a heretic. He's actually a man of faith and not a dirty apologist. I rather like him even if I don't respect his silly beliefs.

None of this matters to me of course, but it just goes to show that you haven't earned your True Christian™ badge just yet. Why should anyone listen to the vomitous lies you spew forth?


Drich's take on John 3:16 --
For God so loved some of the world that he set up a condition under which his only Son would have to die. After that event, whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Provided you signed the subliminal contract, accepted the condition and told Jesus that he was your boss.

That's the literal Hebrew translation right Drich? or maybe the Aramaic? Cause clearly God doesn't just outright LOVE the world ... it's conditional ... like all perfect love.

(January 23, 2013 at 2:47 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(January 22, 2013 at 2:14 am)Drich Wrote: Do you not understand the Hebrew usage of the term young people?

Why are we still quibbling about this, as though it's the age of the murder victims that makes this good or bad?

It's not the "children" part of the phrase "god killed some children" that is at the root of its moral failing, after all.

Which differs from my statement how? Are 11 and 12 year olds not considered Children?

Are 11 and 12 year olds slaughtered with premeditation not considered murder victims?

(January 23, 2013 at 10:39 am)Stimbo Wrote: Are 11 and 12 year olds slaughtered with premeditation not considered murder victims?

Not if you're an apologist. It's easy: God can't do wrong, so therefore, anything he does is automatically perfect and awesome. It's really quite simple, we're just too foolish and hateful to see it.

From what I can tell, the being that is the christian god is the worst possible being that could've ended up as god. I'm reasonably sure that nearly anyone would make a better god than god. We've all met this guy: arrogant, conceded, vengeful, selfish, angry, proud, abusive, judgmental and utterly uninterested in you unless you can do something for him. Well ....... imagine that guy as god, and that's what we've got.

(January 23, 2013 at 4:26 am)Cinjin Wrote: The love I offer my son is conditional too. O wait, not it's not ... not at all.

But it is. For the Love you offer your Son is for YOUR SON. Or do you hold an equal amount of the love for me??? If so Does this mean I can start calling you cinny again?

Once the boy in question has met the requirement of being your son then your love is no doubt boundless. As is God's love for His sons and daughters. But until that one prequsite is met, God's love may not be avaiable.

Quote:Well whadaya-know, I'm already better than your own god.
In fact does ANYONE - ANYWHERE know of ANYONE, who has ever even heard of anyone who spoke of a "perfect love" that was conditional? No?
Just some filthy internet apologist with no education and his own unfounded theories? Yep.

Again, By your own model your version of love (perfect or not) is conditional for a reason. Because it mirrors the relationship God has with us. (His children)

Quote:By the way Drich, I told my wife's father, who is the pastor of his Christian Reform Church all about this conditional love you're trying to sell, and he was outraged. Don't get me wrong, I don't give a shit about what he thinks either, but he's a damn fine bit more educated in theology than you are and he accused you of violating your god's promise to the world .... probably only because he didn't want to outright call you a heretic. He's actually a man of faith and not a dirty apologist. I rather like him even if I don't respect his silly beliefs.

Then ask Him if God's love is for everyone then why doesn't everyone goto Heaven? Why out of Love aren't they forced to save them selves from Hell? Or why doesn't God just forgive everyone without the whole belief without proof nonsense? Why does the bible tell us God hated Essau, Pharoah, Those who are quick to shed blood, those who perrished at sodom and gomorrah, everyone not on the Ark, and entire peoples to the point of genocide? Reform doctrine/beliefs aside, these are all plain and simple examples of the limits of God's boundless love for man, Without the attonemnt offered through Christ's sacerfice. Once we are covered by the attonement Christ offers, then we will find God's love is indeed infinate.

In reality God loved all of us enough to provide us a way to love Him If we simply accept it. If we do not accept what God has offered then do not fool yourself with a doctrine you do not believe anyway. Know that in your rebellion you know and have used the limits of God's love to disprove the myth of an omni-benevolent God.

Quote:None of this matters to me of course, but it just goes to show that you haven't earned your True Christian™ badge just yet. Why should anyone listen to the vomitous lies you spew forth?

Your begging the question here.

Believe what I say or not, it makes little difference to me. What I say is meant for those who are looking to reconsile what the bible teaches directly, and what is said about god from those repersenting a specific denomination. Nothing more.

Quote:Drich's take on John 3:16 --
For God so loved some of the world that he set up a condition under which his only Son would have to die. After that event, whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Provided you signed the subliminal contract, accepted the condition and told Jesus that he was your boss.

No. God loved all of us enough to provide ALL (not just one people like He did with the jews) the oppertunity to connect and be loved by Him.

This does not mean God blindly will love and except everyone for the next line stipulates this condition (That who so ever believes in Him.) That is the condition. God's love is all encompassing to the point to provide everyone with the same oppertunity. That oppertunity is to meet the condition "that who so ever believes." Shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Quote:That's the literal Hebrew translation right Drich? or maybe the Aramaic? Cause clearly God doesn't just outright LOVE the world ... it's conditional ... like all perfect love.

Show me in the english or greek where John 3:16 shows or even mentions the "perfect love" you speak of.

Again if you care to read this scripture according to it intended context the meaning of the passage is quite clear (as repersented in english) in that this love is conditional, Start with john 3:14-21 The condition of God's love is, "That Who ever believes in Him will have eternal life." This condition is mentioned at least 1/2 a dozen times. If you or your preacher friend are still having trouble seeing the contradiction, then ask yourself in the light of what that bank of scripture says, what happens when someone does not meet the requirement of belief? Is God's love still extended to them, will they have eternal life? Will they be welcomed in Heaven? If God loved everyone wouldn't this be the case? That he would forgive all sin despite what people believed. Now ask yourself according to the outlined passages in john 3, is this what John 3:14-21 teaches?

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(January 23, 2013 at 10:39 am)Stimbo Wrote: Are 11 and 12 year olds slaughtered with premeditation not considered murder victims?

Are soliders who execute "premeditated" battle plans also murders? what about the state who condemns a man to die for his crimes, The judge who sentenced him, the prosecutor who requested the death penialty? The store own who buys a gun because he has been robbed so many times in the past? the woman going for an abortion? Are all of these murders as well?

No, why? Because all of these deaths were sanctioned, by the state and subsequently by god who empowered the state over matters of life and death. If God empowers the state He most certainly has the authority to empower of couple of bears. (not speaking of the gay ones)

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(January 23, 2013 at 11:08 am)Cinjin Wrote: Not if you're an apologist. It's easy: God can't do wrong, so therefore, anything he does is automatically perfect and awesome. It's really quite simple, we're just too foolish and hateful to see it.

Yes!

Quote:From what I can tell, the being that is the christian god is the worst possible being that could've ended up as god. I'm reasonably sure that nearly anyone would make a better god than god. We've all met this guy: arrogant, conceded, vengeful, selfish, angry, proud, abusive, judgmental and utterly uninterested in you unless you can do something for him. Well ....... imagine that guy as god, and that's what we've got.

Finally!! For the Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

I didn't respond to a lot of that blathering, because it's the same ole shit we've heard a thousand times from you, and I couldn't have added anything that I haven't said before. Just a lot of baseless assertions from a wannabe intellectual who would likely be beaten down by his own brothers-in-christ if he spoke up in a christian forum with this kind of fucktardery. My guess is that this is one of the very few places where you can freely spew out your special brand of stupid, thereby feeding your own delusions about being god's special chosen one.

(January 23, 2013 at 11:51 am)Drich Wrote: Show me in the english or greek where John 3:16 shows or even mentions the "perfect love" you speak of.

I don't have to show you anything. You get to make up the rules about your version of god but the rest of us don't get to? You get to simply discard millions of other christians ideals and sacred beliefs without any kind of education of your own and yet you sit there and demand evidence of "perfect love" from me??? Well fuck you. You're a poser with no backing. Not only do I not have to provide you with any evidence, I'm going to treat you like you treat everyone else. I'll state whatever I FEEL is the truth and than disregard your claims as the ramblings of an uneducated nut job who claims he had visions from god himself, but like every other sheep, has evidence of nothing.

Drich Wrote:

(January 23, 2013 at 10:39 am)Stimbo Wrote: Are 11 and 12 year olds slaughtered with premeditation not considered murder victims?

Are soliders who execute "premeditated" battle plans also murders? what about the state who condemns a man to die for his crimes, The judge who sentenced him, the prosecutor who requested the death penialty? The store own who buys a gun because he has been robbed so many times in the past? the woman going for an abortion? Are all of these murders as well?

No, why? Because all of these deaths were sanctioned, by the state and subsequently by god who empowered the state over matters of life and death. If God empowers the state He most certainly has the authority to empower of couple of bears. (not speaking of the gay ones)

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(January 23, 2013 at 11:08 am)Cinjin Wrote: Not if you're an apologist. It's easy: God can't do wrong, so therefore, anything he does is automatically perfect and awesome. It's really quite simple, we're just too foolish and hateful to see it.

Yes!

Quote:From what I can tell, the being that is the christian god is the worst possible being that could've ended up as god. I'm reasonably sure that nearly anyone would make a better god than god. We've all met this guy: arrogant, conceded, vengeful, selfish, angry, proud, abusive, judgmental and utterly uninterested in you unless you can do something for him. Well ....... imagine that guy as god, and that's what we've got.

Finally!! For the Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

I've cut this and emailed it to my father-in-law and his church elders. It's just too perfect to pass up. It's always a pleasure when a christard arms me with another stick to beat the church with. He'll be so annoyed - and I always enjoy watching them trying to overcome the moronic interpretations of their fellow sheep.

You actually admitted your god was all those things. You dolt.

(January 23, 2013 at 11:51 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 23, 2013 at 10:39 am)Stimbo Wrote: Are 11 and 12 year olds slaughtered with premeditation not considered murder victims?

Are soliders who execute "premeditated" battle plans also murders? what about the state who condemns a man to die for his crimes, The judge who sentenced him, the prosecutor who requested the death penialty? The store own who buys a gun because he has been robbed so many times in the past? the woman going for an abortion? Are all of these murders as well?

Well if we are to believe some sections of society, some of them more outspoken than other, yes. However, I'm not going to follow your red herrings any further than that. The point of this story that you seem revealingly desperate to wish away is that a group of characters were deliberately slaughtered by this god of yours. It doesn't matter whether or not they were children, what the method was or even if the described events really happened; no person with even the vaguest hint of human feeling ought to be able to look at this repulsive little tale and consider it, and the god it describes, good. That there exist people who purport to do so truly saddens me. I apologise if that sounds condescending.

(January 24, 2013 at 6:25 pm)Cinjin Wrote: I've cut this and emailed it to my father-in-law and his church elders.

Oooo I guess I'm in for it now. I've been ratted out to a preacher and the elders of a church you do not believe in..

Quote:It's just too perfect to pass up. It's always a pleasure when a christard arms me with another stick to beat the church with. He'll be so annoyed - and I always enjoy watching them trying to overcome the moronic interpretations of their fellow sheep.

-Or he will look at what has been said and study it, who knows may even change his perspective, and with the clout that the words of a legitmate/ordained preacher brings, may help bring change to his whole denomination. Bringing millions?? closer to Christ. I thank you for helping spread the word. You have done something that I could not do on my own. You breached denominational boundries. I guess I owe you one. Keep up the good work!!