(January 27, 2013 at 3:07 pm)NomenMihiNon Wrote:

(January 27, 2013 at 2:02 pm)Euler Wrote: Try to get them to define 'energy' in a meaningful way.

That's the thing. Much like the biblical literalist who insists that God planted false evidence about the universe's age and origins in order to test our faith, the New Ager can claim that such energies are simply beyond the current perception of science. Granted, one could point out that if such energies existed then science would at least be able to perceive their influence on the material world, and so on. But eventually the discussion will reach the New Ager's threshold for speculative reasoning, and any further points will be met with a "well, it just doesn't work that way" or some such nonsense.

Again, like Minimalist said, the only real difference with refuting New Age ideas is that their adherents tend to be nicer about it.

Which is also why it's so hard to have a debate with this kind of person in the first place: only one party is actually having a debate.

I would just say it's a bit fluffy, wishful thinking and doesn't really represent real life or the human condition as it is. Another thing is apparently you can achieve anything you want in life through positive thinking. If something bad happens to you it's because you weren't generating enough positive energy so it's entirely your own fault. Tell that to the people Dafur region in the Sudan or whatever, they're not generating enough positive energy to manifest into their lives. And there is Deepak Chopras brand of quantum woo, healing crystals, Uri Geller and people making shed loads of money from a load of bollocks. At least traditional religion has some class, some ancient tradition, a bit of intelletual philosophy.

I have to disagree with you zone, because somebody has been a pratt for a long time does not mean they are better than somebody who has only been a pratt for a short while.

(January 28, 2013 at 1:26 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: PS: Just an an idea about the best way to critique New Age ideas. If anyone has a degree in physics they can challenge Amit Goswami and Fred Alan Wolf.

Quantum mechanics is just the physics of the very small which works very differently from what we understand of Newtonian physics on the larger scales. We haven't been able to unify these two yet. But just because it's very strange it doesn't mean there's anything mystical going on it's still just physics and understandable natural laws.

(January 28, 2013 at 4:41 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: I didn't say that Biocentrism is true. I was just pointing out that New Agers get their ideas from scientists who appear on DC's show. When the scientist concerned agrees with something that DC says the New Agers will disregard any criticism of things they want to hear. They'll also disregard any criticism of respected physicists like Schroedinger saying that the universe runs on consciousness.

Sorry Ape. I didn't mean to leave the impression that I thought your post was in agreement with Lanza's claims. I wanted to provide the link in the spirit of answering the OP question on how to effectively critique such claims.

[quote='Confused Ape' pid='392937' dateline='1359405704']

[quote]Goswami has written six other popular books based on his research on quantum physics and consciousness. In The Visionary Window, Goswami demonstrated how science and spirituality could be integrated. In Physics of the Soul he developed a theory of survival after death and reincarnation. His book Quantum Creativity is a tour de force instruction about how to engage in both outer and inner creativity. Goswami's book, The Quantum Doctor integrates conventional and alternative medicine.[/quote]

In the words of Brian Cox after his lecture on quantum physics "No mumbo jumbo, no woo, just beautiful physics". But if by spirituality you mean the feeling you get when looking at a star filled sky, the beauty of a sunset, attaining inner peace and tranquility and being kind to others then you can/should do all that anyway. As for the all "big questions" those questions are open, you can just appreciate the mystery of the unknown. If I end up being reincarnated or floating about in some other worldly plane of quantum mechanical reality I don't think it really affects my life or anything I do anyway. It's not something to base your life on.