A far less inept analogy would be

-Well class, three of you thought that “2+2=4”, two of you thought that “2+2=5”, and three of you thought that “2+2=3”, which of you has given the correct answer and how do you know this to be the case?-

(April 24, 2013 at 8:27 am)John V Wrote:

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First, I'm not claiming anything. I'm noting that a simple explanation exists.

Second, you spin it as if the difference in time is short. It isn't. It's years.

A person can have an old resume which shows their highest education as a high school degree, and another which shows their highest education as a college degree. If the latter was dated four or more years later than the former, no one would yell Contradiction! This isn't rocket science.

To those saying that Christians are doing gymnastics to avoid contradictions: look in the mirror. You're doing gymnastics to try to uphold the contradictions. You'd be better off admitting that there's some crap in that chart and trying to make a chart with fewer but better charges.

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You nailed it! The following statements are not contradictory…
“Tom Brady threw 5 touchdown passes in one game”
“Tom Brady threw 6 touchdown passes in one game”

A. If we are talking about two different games there is no contradiction here.
B. Even if we are talking about the same game, the two statements are not contradictory because if the second statement is true the first statement is also true since if a person throws six touchdown passes in one game, they also threw five; so if someone kills 800 people in one battle they also killed 300 people in the same battle (especially considering one verse says 300 with his spear and the other verse’s text only reads that he killed 800 people). Either way, the unbelievers cannot prove a contradiction exists in that passage of the Bible.

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(April 24, 2013 at 5:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: A far less inept analogy would be

-Well class, three of you thought that “2+2=4”, two of you thought that “2+2=5”, and three of you thought that “2+2=3”, which of you has given the correct answer and how do you know this to be the case?-

No, that’s not what he’s arguing at all, he’s arguing that scripture is not God’s word (or that there is no correct interpretation of scripture) simply because Christians disagree with one another which is the same as arguing there is no correct solution to “2+2=?” simply because people can disagree on what that solution is. You know that argument doesn’t logically follow Rhythm, it is okay to join me in calling him out on it.

Quote:hen I see no problem. He was crucified on day of Preparation and then died when the day changed. The terms are correct. I'm really confused at to what your argument is.

Incorrect but I admire your desire to keep trying to defend an untenable position. They should make you a fucking saint or something.

Quote:I'm thinking he wasn't born while Quinirus was governor in Galilee and Luke messed up.

So....continue the thought...there is thus a CONTRADICTION between Luke and Matty. Which was the original point of the thread.

Quote:A silly argument?

Now you are back to merely being dense. These varying accounts describe the same events differently.

Quote:King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.
--Mark 6:38

Quote:New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And Jesus said to them, "How many loaves do you have?" And they said, "Seven, and a few small fish."

-- Matty 15:34

Now, were there 5 loaves? Or 7? Or my idea that there were none and none of this bullshit ever happened. Nonetheless. The supposedly inerrant holy books have different information. Your problem, again.

Quote:They are written later into mark,

Now you are admitting that your holy books were forged? Keep going, you are getting interesting. You are getting to have a lot in common with Bart Ehrman.

Quote:I think they ONLY told Peter and the disciples.

But it SAYS they told NO ONE. Surely even you can see the discrepancy?

Quote:You're a troll, not a scholar.

No, merely someone who does not suffer fools gladly.

Quote:YES, YOU GOT IT!!!

I've had it for quite some time. Your fellow fundies may kick you out of the pew, though. They think all of this shit is...to use a phrase...."gospel."

Quote:Oh, nevermind.

Conceding? Jesus will be disappointed in you. Or would be if he existed!

(April 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: No, that’s not what he’s arguing at all, he’s arguing that scripture is not God’s word (or that there is no correct interpretation of scripture) simply because Christians disagree with one another which is the same as arguing there is no correct solution to “2+2=?” simply because people can disagree on what that solution is. You know that argument doesn’t logically follow Rhythm, it is okay to join me in calling him out on it.

I don't think he was arguing that its not the word of god because you christian types can't agree...I think he was merely stating a fact (it really doesn't matter what your magic book says), and then asking which of the two of you have the accurate particulars of this sad little fairy tale down in any case. The two things are - as you've noticed- not interchangeable or directly related.

As far as any contradictions in the text might go, one would hope that there wouldn't be any, it's a ruthlessly edited story after all. But, there are usually some errors that creep in with any mass produced fiction. Not that finding any contradictions would imply anything about your god (or not finding them....)- for precisely the same reasons noticed above.

Perhaps this is where it would be useful to have -someone- explain to you the value of the phrase -but not the contents thereof-.

(April 24, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't think he was arguing that its not the word of god because you christian types can't agree...I think he was merely stating a fact (it really doesn't matter what your magic book says),

So he wasn’t even trying to make an argument and failing but rather be was merely making a baseless assertion? That’s even worse.

Quote: and then asking which of the two of you have the accurate particulars of this sad little fairy tale down in any case. The two things are - as you've noticed- not interchangeable or directly related.

He was asking an irrelevant question, as I already pointed out.

Quote: As far as any contradictions in the text might go, one would hope that there wouldn't be any, it's a ruthlessly edited story after all.

Another baseless assertion.

Quote: But, there are usually some errors that creep in with any mass produced fiction.

We’re not talking about mass produced fiction so that point is also irrelevant.

Quote: Not that finding any contradictions would imply anything about your god (or not finding them....)- for precisely the same reasons noticed above.

The irrelevant reason noted above? Ok.

(April 24, 2013 at 7:12 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: So he wasn’t even trying to make an argument and failing but rather be was merely making a baseless assertion? That’s even worse.

What baseless assertion might that be? It doesn't matter what your holy book says Stat.

Quote:He was asking an irrelevant question, as I already pointed out.

Irrelevant with regards to what, perhaps he was just interested for his own amusement.

Quote:Another baseless assertion.

you keep using that term......

Quote:
We’re not talking about mass produced fiction so that point is also irrelevant.

My mistake...I thought we were talking about the bible?

Quote:
The irrelevant reason noted above? Ok.

Irrelevant to what? If the conjecture is that the presence (or lack thereof) of contradictions within a fictional narrative are supposed to say something about the narrative (beyond an appraisal of the competency of it's editors) reminding either side that this is not the case seems pretty relevant to me. Even in the case of non-fiction we find conflicting reports and details. I don't see the significance either way - personally.

(April 24, 2013 at 7:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What baseless assertion might that be? It doesn't matter what your holy book says Stat.

…that one right there. Truth matters, therefore it does matter what scripture says.

Quote:Irrelevant with regards to what, perhaps he was just interested for his own amusement.

His amusement is not relevant to me in this discussion, so his question was irrelevant either way.

Quote:you keep using that term......

You keep forcing me to use it; I actually wish I didn’t have to use it so often on here.

Quote:
My mistake...I thought we were talking about the bible?

We are, which means we’re talking about mass produced truth.

Quote:
Irrelevant to what? If the conjecture is that the presence (or lack thereof) of contradictions within a fictional narrative are supposed to say something about the narrative (beyond an appraisal of the competency of it's editors) reminding either side that this is not the case seems pretty relevant to me.

You really think that’s the reason atheists spend so much time and effort trying to find contradictions in the Bible? Really?

(April 24, 2013 at 7:45 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: …that one right there. Truth matters, therefore it does matter what scripture says.

Why? -and why respond with a non-seq after bitching about baseless assertions?

Quote:His amusement is not relevant to me in this discussion, so his question was irrelevant either way.

He did ask a question about which of two competing christian interpretations was the accurate one.......seems pretty relevant to both you - and the thread amigo.

Quote:You keep forcing me to use it; I actually wish I didn’t have to use it so often on here.

-with my magical powers

Quote:
We are, which means we’re talking about mass produced truth.

O? Maybe it's hiding in the margins or something? I never noticed it. No, wait, wait, it has a publishers stamp, that bit is usually pretty accurate, right?

Quote:
You really think that’s the reason atheists spend so much time and effort trying to find contradictions in the Bible? Really?

I wouldn't know, why do -certain- theists spend so much time on the proposition that there are none? Both behaviors are mystifying to me.

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-I mean, I suppose for some the idea that the narrative contains contradictions might seem to suggest that it isn't of godly origin, but -why- it would suggest this is as mysterious as the notion that if it did not -it would support a claim of being the word of a god-...for the same reason in both cases........

(April 24, 2013 at 7:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Why? -and why respond with a non-seq after bitching about baseless assertions?

Since even the possibility of knowledge requires that scripture be infallible, and since knowledge matters then what scripture says also matters. That’s not a non-sequitur at all.

Quote:He did ask a question about which of two competing christian interpretations was the accurate one.......seems pretty relevant to both you - and the thread amigo.

Not when the topic at hand is alleged contradictions in the Bible…amigo. He was merely tossing out a red herring, that’s obvious. You know you are allowed to call out your fellow unbelievers when they screw up like that right? I do not believe that’s against the forum rules here.

Quote:-with my magical powers

No, with your irrational behavior…

Quote:
O? Maybe it's hiding in the margins or something? I never noticed it.

No, it’s not hiding anywhere and you have noticed it before. (Romans 1:18-23).

Quote:
I wouldn't know, why do -certain- theists spend so much time on the proposition that there are none? Both behaviors are mystifying to me.

I’ll let you in on a little secret, it’s not because either of them believe they are merely trying to find contradictions in a piece of mere fiction. That one’s for free.

(April 24, 2013 at 8:07 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Since even the possibility of knowledge requires that scripture be infallible, and since knowledge matters then what scripture says also matters. That’s not a non-sequitur at all.

Now who's peddling baseless assertions eh?

Quote:Not when the topic at hand is alleged contradictions in the Bible…amigo. He was merely tossing out a red herring, that’s obvious. You know you are allowed to call out your fellow unbelievers when they screw up like that right? I do not believe that’s against the forum rules here.

Its a forum, the discussion wanders. Knowing which interpretation was the accurate one would be required before being able to determine if there were -in fact- any contradictions, wouldn't you agree? If one can;t be certain of what is being said - then how would one identify a contradiction?

Quote:No, with your irrational behavior…

I prefer magic. You have yours, I have mine.

Quote:
No, it’s not hiding anywhere and you have noticed it before. (Romans 1:18-23).

See, there's your magic - you know things about me without having ever met me - that's what.... your 6th or 7th sense in operation?

Quote:
I’ll let you in on a little secret, it’s not because either of them believe they are merely trying to find contradictions in a piece of mere fiction. That one’s for free.

Magical powers.