(May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am)Godschild Wrote: You aren't very attentive are you, most Christians of the Southern Baptist will give you the same answers to biblical questions. However there's an aspect of Christianity you do not understand, we each have a personal relationship with God. As individuals differ so do their relationships with God and so you will hear different things from different Christians, this is as natural as relationships between different people. There's nothing subjective about God or the believers relationship with Him. God being omniscient can have as many different relationships as there are those who want a relationship with Him. Thank God for all our differences, it would be a boring world if everyone was like you.

I have a relationship with god. He told me that everything you say is one hundred percent wrong, GC. Every word. For all time.

What now?

(May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Praetorian Wrote: Oh, GC. Do you really think that you, and you alone, know the mind of God?

No never claimed that and would never, I learn much from more mature Christians than myself and glad they share what they understand. As Drich said we can know much about God by studying the study book (that would be the Bible for you that can't reason it out) He gave us. You know it's not our fault you can't see the truth in scripture, you should get upset with yourselves for being so illiterate when it comes to the scriptures. Hey guess what I had 9 year old children that knew more about the mind of God than you do, sad really.

---

(May 25, 2013 at 3:34 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am)Godschild Wrote:

---

You aren't very attentive are you, most Christians of the Southern Baptist will give you the same answers to biblical questions. However there's an aspect of Christianity you do not understand, we each have a personal relationship with God. As individuals differ so do their relationships with God and so you will hear different things from different Christians, this is as natural as relationships between different people. There's nothing subjective about God or the believers relationship with Him. God being omniscient can have as many different relationships as there are those who want a relationship with Him. Thank God for all our differences, it would be a boring world if everyone was like you.

---

I have a relationship with god. He told me that everything you say is one hundred percent wrong, GC. Every word. For all time.

What now?

I can call you a liar and be 100% correct because you have stated you do not believe there is a God. Liar, liar, liar.

(May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am)Godschild Wrote: I can call you a liar and be 100% correct because you have stated you do not believe there is a God. Liar, liar, liar.

And then I say that I've found him, and that he's an atheist too, and that he's said exactly what I represented him as saying. In fact, he made me his representative in general. I am, as of now, the voice of god.

I mean, hey! We all get our own personal relationship with god, which we don't have to prove, and which allows us to diverge from what's written in the bible, right? What the hell is the difference between my relationship with god and yours?

(May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Praetorian Wrote: Oh, GC. Do you really think that you, and you alone, know the mind of God?

No never claimed that and would never, I learn much from more mature Christians than myself and glad they share what they understand. As Drich said we can know much about God by studying the study book (that would be the Bible for you that can't reason it out) He gave us. You know it's not our fault you can't see the truth in scripture, you should get upset with yourselves for being so illiterate when it comes to the scriptures. Hey guess what I had 9 year old children that knew more about the mind of God than you do, sad really.

Remember how I said you've imagined the box you've put yourself in away?

You've gone from trying to justify your arguments to simply saying "I'm right, because i'm right".

If you're trying to convince us you're right, you need to bring a little more to the table than nothing at all.

---

(May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 24, 2013 at 6:34 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I think it a good point that often gets overlooked. There are as many Christian gods as there are Christians. I've never seen a uniform description of a god or its traits, even from two Christians who are of the same sect.

God is subjective based on the mind of the believer. What they says goes.

You aren't very attentive are you, most Christians of the Southern Baptist will give you the same answers to biblical questions. However there's an aspect of Christianity you do not understand, we each have a personal relationship with God. As individuals differ so do their relationships with God and so you will hear different things from different Christians, this is as natural as relationships between different people. There's nothing subjective about God or the believers relationship with Him. God being omniscient can have as many different relationships as there are those who want a relationship with Him. Thank God for all our differences, it would be a boring world if everyone was like you.

So now you've descended into insult for disagreement.

You know absolutely nothing outside your little box. Belief and religion is entirely subjective on the context of said belief. The evidence for this is the astounding level of different religions that purportedly believe in the same 'god' but disagree with each other over every minute detail.

There's a fallacy called a "no true Scotsman" which, in my many years on a variety of forums, has been the no.1 fallacy employed by theists to decry the musings of other theists who disagree with them over the nature of belief.

Your reply also highlights to me why and everyone else why you just don't get it, why you're a robot, and why you'll never listen to anyone or anything that doesn't agree with you. Belief is personal (you admit that yourself!), but you contradict yourself in the same paragraph by saying that there is nothing subjective about believers or their relationship (thank god for all our differences - DUH).

You've also contradicted your argument a further time by praising your fairy woman for differences, and then sleight of hand insulting me for being different from you despite the fact you just praised your god for that same difference. Are you going to reply by insinuating that I was inferring one and all should be the same? Then be warned you will be employing a Strawman because that will be a point of contention you have dreamed up alongside your version of whatever god it is you worship.

So, who is the more attentive one now? The guy who contradicts himself every other sentence, or the guy just asking a few questions?

(May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(May 24, 2013 at 5:57 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why is it sickening, I see it as the greatest loving relationship possible. Worship is loving God, through many different ways, but all within God's will. Why in God's will Because He is omniscient and knows what will make the best life for us,

What makes the best life for millions of infants is a short, hungry, miserable existence which ends in the prolonged misery of either disease or starvation.

Since you do not believe there's a God, then tell us what's your reason for not helping all those people you rant about. Are you as callous as you describe God are you as uncaring as you accuse the God you don't believe exists. Just what is your problem. If you spent the same amount of time try do to something for those people as you do here telling us how bad the God you do not believe in is, then those people would have more than they do now, how irresponsible of you.

(May 25, 2013 at 3:55 am)Godschild Wrote: Since you do not believe there's a God, then tell us what's your reason for not helping all those people you rant about. Are you as callous as you describe God are you as uncaring as you accuse the God you don't believe exists. Just what is your problem. If you spent the same amount of time try do to something for those people as you do here telling us how bad the God you do not believe in is, then those people would have more than they do now, how irresponsible of you.

Classic tactic, turning the conversation around with aggression, instead of answering a legitimate question for which you have no answer.

(May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am)Godschild Wrote: No never claimed that and would never, I learn much from more mature Christians than myself and glad they share what they understand. As Drich said we can know much about God by studying the study book (that would be the Bible for you that can't reason it out) He gave us. You know it's not our fault you can't see the truth in scripture, you should get upset with yourselves for being so illiterate when it comes to the scriptures. Hey guess what I had 9 year old children that knew more about the mind of God than you do, sad really.

Fidel Wrote:Remember how I said you've imagined the box you've put yourself in away?

You've gone from trying to justify your arguments to simply saying "I'm right, because i'm right".

If you're trying to convince us you're right, you need to bring a little more to the table than nothing at all.

I answered the question put to me, and did not say that I'm right because I'm right, you must be confused. You need to read what's written and not what you thinks written.

---

(May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am)Godschild Wrote: You aren't very attentive are you, most Christians of the Southern Baptist will give you the same answers to biblical questions. However there's an aspect of Christianity you do not understand, we each have a personal relationship with God. As individuals differ so do their relationships with God and so you will hear different things from different Christians, this is as natural as relationships between different people. There's nothing subjective about God or the believers relationship with Him. God being omniscient can have as many different relationships as there are those who want a relationship with Him. Thank God for all our differences, it would be a boring world if everyone was like you.

Fidel Wrote:So now you've descended into insult for disagreement.

Insult man you are losing it, speaking the truth is not insulting anyone, you want to read insults go back and read what you and others have said toward me.

Fidel Wrote:You know absolutely nothing outside your little box. Belief and religion is entirely subjective on the context of said belief. The evidence for this is the astounding level of different religions that purportedly believe in the same 'god' but disagree with each other over every minute detail.

Friend I've seen plenty of the world and what it has to offer, I've experienced a lot of it before coming into a real relationship with God. As far as your understanding of Christianity, you have none, your arguments have no merit, I really do not know why you try.

Fidel Wrote:There's a fallacy called a "no true Scotsman" which, in my many years on a variety of forums, has been the no.1 fallacy employed by theists to decry the musings of other theists who disagree with them over the nature of belief.

You use that fallacy because you have no real argument against what we state, why don't you stop telling Christians there business. You know nothing about Christianity, just like I know nothing about quantum mechanics and you do not see me getting into those arguments.

Fidel Wrote:Your reply also highlights to me why and everyone else why you just don't get it, why you're a robot, and why you'll never listen to anyone or anything that doesn't agree with you. Belief is personal (you admit that yourself!), but you contradict yourself in the same paragraph by saying that there is nothing subjective about believers or their relationship (thank god for all our differences - DUH).

Oh and I suppose you agree with Christians and their doctrines and will accept them when we bring them up, no you do not, you never listen to us all you can do is use foul language and insults. No I did not contradict myself, you can not comprehend God and the relationship Christians have with Him, so you use another tired old argument of contradiction.

Fidel Wrote:You've also contradicted your argument a further time by praising your fairy woman for differences, and then sleight of hand insulting me for being different from you despite the fact you just praised your god for that same difference. Are you going to reply by insinuating that I was inferring one and all should be the same? Then be warned you will be employing a Strawman because that will be a point of contention you have dreamed up alongside your version of whatever god it is you worship.

Yes I praise God for the differences in humans, and as for you It was just an example, you should take a chill pill. Again you insult Christians by your lack of respect, you should know that I worship the One God of creation.

---

(May 25, 2013 at 4:42 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 3:55 am)Godschild Wrote: Since you do not believe there's a God, then tell us what's your reason for not helping all those people you rant about. Are you as callous as you describe God are you as uncaring as you accuse the God you don't believe exists. Just what is your problem. If you spent the same amount of time try do to something for those people as you do here telling us how bad the God you do not believe in is, then those people would have more than they do now, how irresponsible of you.

Classic tactic, turning the conversation around with aggression, instead of answering a legitimate question for which you have no answer.

You are showing me how dishonest you are, there was no question asked, only a statement and I have the right to respond with a statement. I did just that, since you seem to want to answer for others then you should us some intelligence and find out exactly what was said. Sorry if you do not like the aggressive style I used, and turning the table is just plain ol' good debate tactics, what's the matter with you, you scared or something, if you do not like the way I argue points with others then stay out of them. Grow up and become a responsible person, please.

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote: You are showing me how dishonest you are, there was no question asked, only a statement and I have the right to respond with a statement. I did just that, since you seem to want to answer for others then you should us some intelligence and find out exactly what was said. Sorry if you do not like the aggressive style I used, and turning the table is just plain ol' good debate tactics, what's the matter with you, you scared or something, if you do not like the way I argue points with others then stay out of them. Grow up and become a responsible person, please.

Dishonest? You were responding to a comment/question Ryantology posed, anyone can see that, it's in your initial quote text, so don't pretend I'm coming out of nowhere. My point was, instead of posting something germane to the actual comment itself- because you don't have anything intelligent to say- you instead turn it around, as if doing so negates the initial puncture to your worldview.

As to being scared... no. Disappointed, perhaps, that a supposed adult conducts himself as you do, but not scared. And as for being a responsible person, I'll just continue enjoying my weekend, away from my job, before Monday comes and I'm back to it, plus my volunteer tutoring job, and think about my upcoming nuptials a bit...

And all that, without recourse to bronze age fairytales. Certainly puts things in perspective, non?

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 3:44 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am)Godschild Wrote: No never claimed that and would never, I learn much from more mature Christians than myself and glad they share what they understand. As Drich said we can know much about God by studying the study book (that would be the Bible for you that can't reason it out) He gave us. You know it's not our fault you can't see the truth in scripture, you should get upset with yourselves for being so illiterate when it comes to the scriptures. Hey guess what I had 9 year old children that knew more about the mind of God than you do, sad really.

Fidel Wrote:Remember how I said you've imagined the box you've put yourself in away?

You've gone from trying to justify your arguments to simply saying "I'm right, because i'm right".

If you're trying to convince us you're right, you need to bring a little more to the table than nothing at all.

I answered the question put to me, and did not say that I'm right because I'm right, you must be confused. You need to read what's written and not what you thinks written.

You're offering precisely zero to back up your claims of clarity.

You are, in effect, making it up as you go along (or repeating that which you have made up previously).

---

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am)Godschild Wrote: You aren't very attentive are you, most Christians of the Southern Baptist will give you the same answers to biblical questions. However there's an aspect of Christianity you do not understand, we each have a personal relationship with God. As individuals differ so do their relationships with God and so you will hear different things from different Christians, this is as natural as relationships between different people. There's nothing subjective about God or the believers relationship with Him. God being omniscient can have as many different relationships as there are those who want a relationship with Him. Thank God for all our differences, it would be a boring world if everyone was like you.

Fidel Wrote:So now you've descended into insult for disagreement.

Insult man you are losing it, speaking the truth is not insulting anyone, you want to read insults go back and read what you and others have said toward me.

There, you just did it again! Saying you're right because you're right.

Cite where I have insulted you, using the date, reference, quotation, and context.

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

Fidel Wrote:You know absolutely nothing outside your little box. Belief and religion is entirely subjective on the context of said belief. The evidence for this is the astounding level of different religions that purportedly believe in the same 'god' but disagree with each other over every minute detail.

Friend I've seen plenty of the world and what it has to offer, I've experienced a lot of it before coming into a real relationship with God. As far as your understanding of Christianity, you have none, your arguments have no merit, I really do not know why you try.

*sigh*

I feel ashamed to use your own logic but *open your eyes*. There is no uniform belief, and no uniform deity. There might be a uniform idea (Eg. Jesus), but the concepts of this idea are completely subjective. The evidence for this is everywhere, you just refuse to see it. The number of religions that adhere to the same ideas but have varied beliefs based on those ideas (because they disagree) is so self-evidence I feel silly even having to try and point that out to you.

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

Fidel Wrote:There's a fallacy called a "no true Scotsman" which, in my many years on a variety of forums, has been the no.1 fallacy employed by theists to decry the musings of other theists who disagree with them over the nature of belief.

You use that fallacy because you have no real argument against what we state, why don't you stop telling Christians there business. You know nothing about Christianity, just like I know nothing about quantum mechanics and you do not see me getting into those arguments.

*sigh II*

I clearly stated that it was other theists who use the fallacy, not 'us'. We know there's no such thing as a true Christian/Muslim/Jew etc.

I'm not talking to you about Christianity, I'm talking to you about why you're making stuff up as you go along and why we, as atheists, find it quite silly. Also, equating the theological underpinnings of Christianity to that of quantum mechanics is quote offensive, but don't worry, none taken :-)

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

Fidel Wrote:Your reply also highlights to me why and everyone else why you just don't get it, why you're a robot, and why you'll never listen to anyone or anything that doesn't agree with you. Belief is personal (you admit that yourself!), but you contradict yourself in the same paragraph by saying that there is nothing subjective about believers or their relationship (thank god for all our differences - DUH).

Oh and I suppose you agree with Christians and their doctrines and will accept them when we bring them up, no you do not, you never listen to us all you can do is use foul language and insults. No I did not contradict myself, you can not comprehend God and the relationship Christians have with Him, so you use another tired old argument of contradiction.

Again, cite, using references, page numbers, and the context, where I have used 'foul language' to insult you.

You are making stuff up again as you go along. "I'm right because you don't understand" (paraphrased, in red. That you don't see the inherent contradictions (not just in the reasoning but also in the basic use of language) doesn't mean they're not there. Anyone can read back through your posts and read them for themselves. I don't have to point them out again, they're there, in black and white.

It's just further evidence of the mental gymnastics you have to go through to form even the most basic of 'coherent' (and I use that words in its loosest sense) arguments.

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote:

Fidel Wrote:You've also contradicted your argument a further time by praising your fairy woman for differences, and then sleight of hand insulting me for being different from you despite the fact you just praised your god for that same difference. Are you going to reply by insinuating that I was inferring one and all should be the same? Then be warned you will be employing a Strawman because that will be a point of contention you have dreamed up alongside your version of whatever god it is you worship.

Yes I praise God for the differences in humans, and as for you It was just an example, you should take a chill pill. Again you insult Christians by your lack of respect, you should know that I worship the One God of creation.

Please don't assume that my blood pressure has risen by any degrees of measurability in talking to you. I know full well that you're a fundamentalist who will refuse to listen to anything unless it is in consensus it's your own ideas.

If I'm insulting Christians by asking questions of their ridiculous beliefs then maybe they should get better beliefs or man up and grow some balls. Nobodies beliefs deserve to be respected, and I think yours are akin to pig swill.

I live in a country where people with such beliefs are so rare as to not feature in any societal discourse. It's really quite nice, actually, to know that the overwhelming vast majority of people here did away with the ideas you hold so dearly many generations ago. I do feel sorry for people in the US who have to combat this kind of silliness in their daily lives just to get the most basic of actions undertaken.

I would have no issues with even the Most extreme of Christians if they just kept their beliefs to themselves. As you seem incapable of doing that, then I'm truly glad that you feel insulted.

---

(May 25, 2013 at 5:54 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am)Godschild Wrote: You are showing me how dishonest you are, there was no question asked, only a statement and I have the right to respond with a statement. I did just that, since you seem to want to answer for others then you should us some intelligence and find out exactly what was said. Sorry if you do not like the aggressive style I used, and turning the table is just plain ol' good debate tactics, what's the matter with you, you scared or something, if you do not like the way I argue points with others then stay out of them. Grow up and become a responsible person, please.

Dishonest? You were responding to a comment/question Ryantology posed, anyone can see that, it's in your initial quote text, so don't pretend I'm coming out of nowhere. My point was, instead of posting something germane to the actual comment itself- because you don't have anything intelligent to say- you instead turn it around, as if doing so negates the initial puncture to your worldview.

As to being scared... no. Disappointed, perhaps, that a supposed adult conducts himself as you do, but not scared. And as for being a responsible person, I'll just continue enjoying my weekend, away from my job, before Monday comes and I'm back to it, plus my volunteer tutoring job, and think about my upcoming nuptials a bit...

And all that, without recourse to bronze age fairytales. Certainly puts things in perspective, non?

Its bank holiday here in the UK in Monday. 3 day weekend! And the sun Is out!

(May 24, 2013 at 11:32 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:

(May 24, 2013 at 11:20 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: We all believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. That's pretty consistent across the board.

Catfish comes to mind, but I won't put words in his mouth...

I see it the same way as defining atheist as simply "disbelief in any god or gods." Similarly, the idea of being a Christian requires, by definition, accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Clearly there are deep doctrinal differences between say Mormons, on the one hand, and Roman Catholics on the other. At the same time, I am not convinced that the sincerely held religious convictions between believers of goodwill are all that different on an intuitive and emotional level. And while it may take some digging, the intellectual foundations have more in common that we might suppose.