(December 11, 2009 at 10:21 pm)theVOID Wrote:

(December 11, 2009 at 10:19 pm)tackattack Wrote:

(December 11, 2009 at 3:37 am)Craveman Wrote: Hey tackattack welcome to the forums! You mentioned that you tried magic...voodoo magic?

rune magic and rituals and I crafted wands.

(December 10, 2009 at 9:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Welcome tacky

Playing around with people's subconscious minds sounds interesting. Where do I sign up?

Start with Jungian technique of active imagination and re-entering and working with dreams to bring them to a positive outcome, as suggested in Strephon Kaplan William’s Dreamworking Book, then move on to active mentalism.

Geeze, more pseudo-bulshitl

at least we can agree on that unless the more you're reffering to is Christianity

(December 12, 2009 at 5:52 pm)Craveman Wrote:

(December 11, 2009 at 10:19 pm)tackattack Wrote:

(December 11, 2009 at 3:37 am)Craveman Wrote: Hey tackattack welcome to the forums! You mentioned that you tried magic...voodoo magic?

rune magic and rituals and I crafted wands.

Seems like all of that stuff messed up your mind if you ended up being a christian in the end (Just kiddin' of course!)

Tell me more about the rune magic and rituals, I'm honestly interested. I've also heard of people playing with ouija boards and claim that it actually works. I'm super sceptic though when it comes to things like that. Have you (or anyone else reading this post) actually tried it?

I don't think ouija boards workand I've played with them. For references on the other stuff I'd check out " Earth Power: Techniques of Natural Magic " or "Helrunar A Manual Of Rune Magick " if that's what you're into.

I didn't realize I had 2 intro posts so I'll consolidate the questions from the other one to here.

(December 2, 2009 at 10:59 pm)theVOID Wrote: Welcome Dave, Want to expand a bit on your chosen Christianity?

I love new theist time, it's like chistmas come early.

Answered for consolidation purposes.
I feel God is outside of the universe, something that could be sentient or non-sentient. Because it caused something to happen we have the known universe inside of the universe that we can observe. It provided us with planar constants like up, down, time, etc. It is Omnipresent because it is outside of our universe. It affects our universe either directly or indirectly based on whether it's sentient or not. It might be cognizant and choose to take action or takes constant action with unseen results. God is be omnipotent. It might be random fluctuations of an energy field and evolution takes over. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and part of the Holy trinity. He suffered and died for our sins. I acknowledge that baptism is for the forgiveness of sin. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Thus have the prophets of old testified; thus the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us; thus the Symbol of Fathers {the Nicene Creed} has handed down to us.

(December 2, 2009 at 6:55 am)leo-rcc Wrote: Hello Dave,

Welcome to the forums.

(December 2, 2009 at 5:56 am)tackattack Wrote: Hey I'm dave.. I'm a christian ann I needed a place to ask questions and discuss various religious beliefs.

Then why register at a place where the people have no religious belief? Do you discuss hair colours on a forum for bald men too?

If my questions were about bald men and hair color then yes I would. There are ideas out there I'm trying to understand and these particular questions are regarding atheism and God. What better place I ask you?

ttackattack Wrote:I don't think ouija boards workand I've played with them. For references on the other stuff I'd check out " Earth Power: Techniques of Natural Magic " or "Helrunar A Manual Of Rune Magick " if that's what you're into.

Lol! Not my cuppa tea thanks tackattack...The books is not something that I would buy for myself or practice. I'm just interested in what and why you did it. How did you end up from experimenting with magic to becoming a Christian?

(December 13, 2009 at 8:17 am)tackattack Wrote: I feel God is outside of the universe, something that could be sentient or non-sentient. Because it caused something to happen we have the known universe inside of the universe that we can observe. It provided us with planar constants like up, down, time, etc. It is Omnipresent because it is outside of our universe. It affects our universe either directly or indirectly based on whether it's sentient or not. It might be cognizant and choose to take action or takes constant action with unseen results. God is be omnipotent. It might be random fluctuations of an energy field and evolution takes over. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and part of the Holy trinity. He suffered and died for our sins. I acknowledge that baptism is for the forgiveness of sin. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Thus have the prophets of old testified; thus the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us; thus the Symbol of Fathers {the Nicene Creed} has handed down to us.

I just checked your holy book (KJV) and found the following descriptions of god:
* He runs like a giant (Job 16:14)
* Roars like a lion (Hosea 11:10)
* Curses (Genesis 8:21)
* Hisses (Isaiah 5:26)
* Spues (Revelation 3:16)
* Changes his mind (Exodus 32:14)
* Sends scabs (Deuteronomy 28:27)
* Shows his back parts (Exodus 33:23)
* Chats with the Devil (Job 1:7-8)
* Instructs Samuel to lie (1 Samuel 16:2)
* Creates evil (Isaiah 45:7)
* Deceives his own prophets (Jeremiah 20:7)
* Sanctions slavery (Exodus 21:2-6)
* Spreads dung on men's faces (Malachi 2:3)

Strange old fellow, your god - and seemingly not outside the universe at all, but well inside it, and taking care of the minute details.

Also, despite your claim that he is omnipotent, according to Judges 1:19 (KJV) The Lord was with Judah and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain "But could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of iron..."

(December 13, 2009 at 12:50 pm)Craveman Wrote:

ttackattack Wrote:I don't think ouija boards workand I've played with them. For references on the other stuff I'd check out " Earth Power: Techniques of Natural Magic " or "Helrunar A Manual Of Rune Magick " if that's what you're into.

Lol! Not my cuppa tea thanks tackattack...The books is not something that I would buy for myself or practice. I'm just interested in what and why you did it. How did you end up from experimenting with magic to becoming a Christian?

Well I was a christian, "lost my faith", tried other options really actively tried for seeking truth and I suppose I was even an agnostic for a bit, then had some personal revelations and believed in Christianity settled on a doctirne and poof.

(December 13, 2009 at 7:38 pm)Joe Bloe Wrote:

(December 13, 2009 at 8:17 am)tackattack Wrote: I feel God is outside of the universe, something that could be sentient or non-sentient. Because it caused something to happen we have the known universe inside of the universe that we can observe. It provided us with planar constants like up, down, time, etc. It is Omnipresent because it is outside of our universe. It affects our universe either directly or indirectly based on whether it's sentient or not. It might be cognizant and choose to take action or takes constant action with unseen results. God is be omnipotent. It might be random fluctuations of an energy field and evolution takes over. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and part of the Holy trinity. He suffered and died for our sins. I acknowledge that baptism is for the forgiveness of sin. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Thus have the prophets of old testified; thus the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us; thus the Symbol of Fathers {the Nicene Creed} has handed down to us.

I just checked your holy book (KJV) and found the following descriptions of god:
* He runs like a giant (Job 16:14)
* Roars like a lion (Hosea 11:10)
* Curses (Genesis 8:21)
* Hisses (Isaiah 5:26)
* Spues (Revelation 3:16)
* Changes his mind (Exodus 32:14)
* Sends scabs (Deuteronomy 28:27)
* Shows his back parts (Exodus 33:23)
* Chats with the Devil (Job 1:7-8)
* Instructs Samuel to lie (1 Samuel 16:2)
* Creates evil (Isaiah 45:7)
* Deceives his own prophets (Jeremiah 20:7)
* Sanctions slavery (Exodus 21:2-6)
* Spreads dung on men's faces (Malachi 2:3)

Strange old fellow, your god - and seemingly not outside the universe at all, but well inside it, and taking care of the minute details.

Also, despite your claim that he is omnipotent, according to Judges 1:19 (KJV) The Lord was with Judah and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain "But could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of iron..."

The Bible is God’s progressive revelation of Himself to us through historical events and through His relationship with people throughout history might contribute to misconceptions about what God is like in the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament. More precisely it is Human interpretation of then unknowable aspects of God. The parts that are humanistic and justifiable through the natural evolution of social growth I attribute to man. God's love and forgiveness I can not see falling into that logic, ergo I attribute that to an actual insight to God.

19The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. (NIV)
see below for all of the different versions including translator notes on that verse.
http://bible.cc/judges/1-19.htm

Actually it states that the men could not drive out the chariots of iron even though God was with them and even though they took the hillside. This was after many long battles where they cut thumbs off their enemies and ransacked jeruselem, etc. It sounds to me like they were just at war and thought God was on their side. God doesn't choose sides in my view, he is a side and you can either be on his or be on your own. God is with me everyday and doesn't pay my checks at tire's plus for me. I hate how some agnostics and lots of Christians quote the Bible like every single word is carved in stone. You have to have a broader perspective if you're going to look at the bible as proof against God than one line at a time in my opinion.

(December 14, 2009 at 1:15 am)tackattack Wrote: The Bible is God’s progressive revelation of Himself to us through historical events and through His relationship with people throughout history might contribute to misconceptions about what God is like in the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament. More precisely it is Human interpretation of then unknowable aspects of God. The parts that are humanistic and justifiable through the natural evolution of social growth I attribute to man. God's love and forgiveness I can not see falling into that logic, ergo I attribute that to an actual insight to God.

19The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. (NIV)
see below for all of the different versions including translator notes on that verse.
http://bible.cc/judges/1-19.htm

Actually it states that the men could not drive out the chariots of iron even though God was with them and even though they took the hillside. This was after many long battles where they cut thumbs off their enemies and ransacked jeruselem, etc. It sounds to me like they were just at war and thought God was on their side. God doesn't choose sides in my view, he is a side and you can either be on his or be on your own. God is with me everyday and doesn't pay my checks at tire's plus for me. I hate how some agnostics and lots of Christians quote the Bible like every single word is carved in stone. You have to have a broader perspective if you're going to look at the bible as proof against God than one line at a time in my opinion.

Yeah, I know about apologetics and I'm not impressed. If a bible text sounds stupid or contradicts some other text, it is immediately reinterpreted (without evidence) as metaphorical, allegorical, or "taken out of context".

Or (as you have done in the last sentence quoted above) the apologist will suggest that the bible-reading-technique of the skeptic is not as good as the technique of the gullible believer. Sounds good to other believers, but just a cheap shot, really...

Tackattack is a very lukewarm theist

I actually don't know why he calls himself a Christian and not just a deist - the reasons he gives for believing in the Divinity of Jesus could be applied to any figure from any religion throughout history - so that choice seems more cultural/social to me than anything, and he also has said that god doesn't answer prayers or interfere with the universe, but he's contradicted himself a few times so i'm not sure

tackattack writes: God doesn't choose sides...
But God does choose sides. In Joshua 17:18 he tells his people before the war with the Canaanites: "the mountain shall be thine" (no qualification - "the mountain shall be thine").

tackattack also claims that God's omnipotence is not to be questioned because it wasn't god who was trying to evict the Canaanites; it was "the men (who) could not drive out the chariots of iron."

The argument hinges on the pronoun "he". Does it refer to God, or does it refer to Joshua and his men?

But Judges 1:19 does not just contradict Revelation 19:6 (which states that God is omnipotent) it also contradicts Joshua 17:18 where God clearly says to his people, "thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots..." yet when it came to the crunch, according to Judges 1:19 he (God or Joshua, take your pick) could NOT drive out the Canaanites BECAUSE they had iron chariots.

...and so it goes: As each contradiction is explained, the explanation merely creates new difficulties with some other bible text.

(December 14, 2009 at 1:06 pm)Joe Bloe Wrote: tackattack writes: God doesn't choose sides...
But God does choose sides. In Joshua 17:18 he tells his people before the war with the Canaanites: "the mountain shall be thine" (no qualification - "the mountain shall be thine").

tackattack also claims that God's omnipotence is not to be questioned because it wasn't god who was trying to evict the Canaanites; it was "the men (who) could not drive out the chariots of iron."

The argument hinges on the pronoun "he". Does it refer to God, or does it refer to Joshua and his men?

But Judges 1:19 does not just contradict Revelation 19:6 (which states that God is omnipotent) it also contradicts Joshua 17:18 where God clearly says to his people, "thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots..." yet when it came to the crunch, according to Judges 1:19 he (God or Joshua, take your pick) could NOT drive out the Canaanites BECAUSE they had iron chariots.

...and so it goes: As each contradiction is explained, the explanation merely creates new difficulties with some other bible text.

That might work against a literalist but Tackattack already made it pretty clear he thinks it's mostly all nonsense stories with a sliver of truth - that being how people experienced what they perceived to be god. He's just really bad with probability and has convinced himself that if enough coincidences happen in your life and if enough people believe in god and report experiences of him he must exist

Quote:could NOT drive out the Canaanites BECAUSE they had iron chariots.

Oddly, though, at this precise point in time ( i.e. between 1550 and 1150 BC) Canaan was under the total domination of Egypt. Not only did they not have "iron chariots" the various Canaanite leaders were forced to write pleading notes to the Pharaoh (in this case Akhenaten) for small units of Egyptian troops to suppress bandits in their own territories. We have examples of such letters in the Tel-el-Amarna library.

Oh, and BTW, those tablets which were found do not mention any Hebrews in spite of the fact that they give us quite a good overview of political conditions in Canaan in the middle of the Egyptian Imperial period.