Quote:Without Eternal Marriage (which excludes homosexual unions), Mormons cannot attain the highest degree of glory in their afterlife.

Interesting. What is their doctrine on children who die before they get married? Is it then fair to say that mormons will try to marry as early as possible to avoid dying unmarried? Or is there another way they go about this?

It would be amusing to have an actual mormon here. It takes a special brand of stupid to fall for a doctrine created in 1825 by a known con man.

(June 26, 2013 at 1:00 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It would be amusing to have an actual mormon here. It takes a special brand of stupid to fall for a doctrine created in 1825 by a known con man.

Unfortunately I have to put my brother and mother in this category of stupid. I have some empathy for those that are raised and indoctrinated into the fold. The stories I have read about those that have left are traumatic.

I'll also add that in my experience the converts are the severe zealots. An anecdote...

I went to a dinner party while visiting my brother. My brother is the only convert present. I actually enjoyed the conversation. No real religion discussion other than what I took as a sincere curiosity about my atheism. After congregating to the living room for further discussion, my brother, I think assuming he was on home turf, opens with this question: "Why is reason considered superior to revelation?". My host tried to deflect, but my brother was adamant. I told the host that I didn't mind providing an answer.

Now with everyone's attention I stood up and grabbed my zipper. The collective gasp shattered a picture frame. I looked at my brother and told him I was going to reveal my penis unless he was prepared to give me a reason why I shouldn't. Everyone but my brother howled and we enjoyed the rest of the evening.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:48 pm)cato123 Wrote: Twain's chloroform quote is almost sinister in its accuracy. I continued to reference it of course as topics were discussed.

I've had members of the Mormon Church quote Twain with an exactly opposite effect in mind than what ol' Marky was proposing. They used it to show what lengths the Devil was using to throw the Book of Mormon under scrutiny, that a scholarly man such as Mark Twain could be duped into believing the book was not true.

Mark Twain was not just smart; he was one of the geniuses of his day. To blindly assert these things about Twain is about as wrong as you can be.

I'm glad you brought that up.

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(June 26, 2013 at 12:56 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:

Quote:Without Eternal Marriage (which excludes homosexual unions), Mormons cannot attain the highest degree of glory in their afterlife.

Interesting. What is their doctrine on children who die before they get married? Is it then fair to say that mormons will try to marry as early as possible to avoid dying unmarried? Or is there another way they go about this?

I was one of those Mormons. I got off my mission when I was 21, moved to Utah, and was married within a year. She and I are, as you might have guessed, no longer together.

In Mormonism, children who died before they are born are saved by default, and they will attain the highest degree of glory because their minds would have been pure and untarnished, having skipped a mortal life on earth. They will even be joined in marriage after death.

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(June 26, 2013 at 1:18 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 1:00 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It would be amusing to have an actual mormon here. It takes a special brand of stupid to fall for a doctrine created in 1825 by a known con man.

Unfortunately I have to put my brother and mother in this category of stupid. I have some empathy for those that are raised and indoctrinated into the fold. The stories I have read about those that have left are traumatic.

My sister left the church for awhile when she was about 18, but she came back when she was 22. She is one of the most zealous of Mormons that I have ever had the displeasure of knowing. It's so bad that she condemns me not watching FOX News (I kid you not! I can't make this stuff up!)

I will say that these people are not necessarily stupid, but, rather, it's ignorance of plain and simple facts that have waylaid them during their search for knowledge. I mean...I don't consider myself a total retard for having fallen prey to Mormon doctrines for almost a quarter century. True, I had many doubts along the way, but there was always something there to squish the doubts and keep me moving on. My fight finally came to a culmination some years ago, and I broke free of the Church completely.

I'm more knowledgeable of the facts of life than I was before, but I don't think I was any less intelligent. Cato, I don't think your brother or your mother are stupid either. I loved the anecdote, though, and I hope you continue to be clever and loving to your family.

I have a question : When mormonism comes up, then usually it is clear that the LDS church is meant.

But can someone tell me something about the Reformed Church a.k.a. Community of Christ. Is it better than LDS ? Not as sinister ?

And what about the Strangites? They are to "normal mormons" as "normal mormons" are to the rest of christianity - a strange offshoot. The Strangites are the "mormons" of the mormons so to speak.

For an Angel helped James Strang to find the Brass Plates whereof he wrote the Book of Laban. Then he was crowned at Beaver Island to King of the World and ruled 12000 subjects . . . and pirates.
http://www.strangite.org/

I just cannot take mormons seriously. Cultism gone mad.

http://www.biblequery.org/OtherBeliefs/M...braham.htm

Quote: Smith translated thousands of English words from about 80 hieroglyphs. Joseph said this was the writing of Abraham and the word of his god. Actually it was a variant of the Book of the Dead, a pagan Egyptian magic book filled with heathen idols, often buried with mummies.

Dr. Richard Parker of Brown University in a personal letter to Marvin Cowen dated Jan. 9 1968 said, "I have seen Joseph Smith's Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar. The interpretation of the signs purported to be Egyptian have no resemblance to the meaning ascribed to them by Egyptologists."

Dr. A.B. Mercer said 50 years ago, "Any pupil of mine who would show such absolute ignorance of Egyptian as Smith does, could not possibly expect to get more than zero in an examination in Egyptology." (Improvement Era, v.16, p.615.).

Dr. John A. Wilson wrote, "...as far as I am concerned I see pieces of two or possibly three different papyrii and every one of them looks like a traditional Book of the Dead." (letter Jan. 5, 1968.)

(June 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm)Regens Küchl Wrote: I have a question : When mormonism comes up, then usually it is clear that the LDS church is meant.

But can someone tell me something about the Reformed Church a.k.a. Community of Christ. Is it better than LDS ? Not as sinister ?

And what about the Strangites? They are to "normal mormons" as "normal mormons" are to the rest of christianity - a strange offshoot. The Strangites are the "mormons" of the mormons so to speak.

For an Angel helped James Strang to find the Brass Plates whereof he wrote the Book of Laban. Then he was crowned at Beaver Island to King of the World and ruled 12000 subjects . . . and pirates.
http://www.strangite.org/

Since the RLDS Church (Community of Christ) still believes in the Book of Mormon, and an entire Bible rewritten by Joseph Smith, they're just as wacky, if not more so. If you believe anything that's obviously false or made up, then it's either because you're ignorant of the facts and keeping yourself that way, or something else is keeping you that way. In the case of the latter, both Churches try to keep misinformation at a high...I mean how do you think the members would react to hear that Joseph was a convicted con man before beginning his writing...er...translation of the Book of Mormon?

The Strangites sound worse than the other two. I say leave it be. Stick to reason, my good man.

Quote:If you believe anything that's obviously false or made up

Of course all of the angry desert god religions believe in shit which is obviously false and made up. They assert the dubious rationale that because it is old it must be true.

Oddly, they don't apply that concept to any other ancient writings which mention Zeus and Apollo.

I wonder why?

(June 26, 2013 at 12:48 pm)cato123 Wrote: My brother converted to Mormonism over twenty years ago. My mother joined the circus about ten years ago. It wasn't until after my mother's conversion that I started my investigation (as a former missionary I hope my use of this word made you chuckle). I made a valiant effort to read the Book of Mormon front to back but gave up after the first 1000 'And it came to pass' sentence starters. Twain's chloroform quote is almost sinister in its accuracy. I continued to reference it of course as topics were discussed.

I was prepared for dealing with scriptural bullshit like the belief that American Indians were semitic, but I was blindsided by how insular and controlling the church is regarding the behavior of its members and the lengths the church goes to in order to ensure compliance.

I'm wayyy more interested in knowing how you're mother managed to join a circus than any mormon topic, you should start a thread on that, or did you mean circus to mean mormonism?

(June 26, 2013 at 12:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote: All religions are cults.

American atheists movements have also moved in that direction.