It's a teeter-totter, not a merry-go-round...

This ain't a teeter-totter, it's a god damn arms race...

(July 8, 2013 at 8:30 am)Koolay Wrote: Well why are they behaving that way to begin with? And you are saying none of these people are in government? The government lies all the time. And kills people on a daily basis.

False syllogism again: Government lies, therefore liars are government.

Take away the government, and you'll still have people lying and killing. They just will no longer be able to build roads together, or to maintain large-scale projects like the internet.

(July 8, 2013 at 7:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 8, 2013 at 8:30 am)Koolay Wrote: Well why are they behaving that way to begin with? And you are saying none of these people are in government? The government lies all the time. And kills people on a daily basis.

False syllogism again: Government lies, therefore liars are government.

Take away the government, and you'll still have people lying and killing. They just will no longer be able to build roads together, or to maintain large-scale projects like the internet.

So you are saying we need a group of people called the government to initiate force upon people to protect those people from groups that would initiate force on them?

(July 8, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Koolay Wrote:

(July 8, 2013 at 7:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote: False syllogism again: Government lies, therefore liars are government.

Take away the government, and you'll still have people lying and killing. They just will no longer be able to build roads together, or to maintain large-scale projects like the internet.

So you are saying we need a group of people called the government to initiate force upon people to protect those people from groups that would initiate force on them?

derp?

So are you saying we are violent because space people came and crossbred our DNA with dragons?

(July 8, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Koolay Wrote: So you are saying we need a group of people called the government to initiate force upon people to protect those people from groups that would initiate force on them?

No. We need the government with the capacity for retaliating with overwhelming force to retaliate against people who initiate force upon others.

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(July 8, 2013 at 8:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 8, 2013 at 7:42 pm)Koolay Wrote: So you are saying we need a group of people called the government to initiate force upon people to protect those people from groups that would initiate force on them?

derp?

So are you saying we are violent because space people came and crossbred our DNA with dragons?

I seriously would like to know where this came from? I was liking your posts until this curveball...

(June 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm)Koolay Wrote: Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is simply evil if you apply rational thought to it.

Let me see an example of a society without government surviving the onslaught of a society with government, and then we can talk about how this glorious society without government can actually exist in a world with governments such that it alledged glorious attributes can be worth talking about.

(July 8, 2013 at 8:13 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(June 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm)Koolay Wrote: Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is simply evil if you apply rational thought to it.

Let me see an example of a society without government surviving the onslaught of a society with government, and then we can talk about how this glorious society without government can actually exist in a world with governments such that it alledged glorious attributes can be worth talking about.

Well, eBay is an example of a society functioning without Government, everything is handled by private entities; eBay and PayPal. Billions upon billions of transactions happen from strangers across the world and the Government does not lay a finger on any of those transactions as disputes are 100% handled by ebay/paypal.

(July 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm)Koolay Wrote: Well, eBay is an example of a society functioning without Government, everything is handled by private entities; eBay and PayPal. Billions upon billions of transactions happen from strangers across the world and the Government does not lay a finger on any of those transactions as disputes are 100% handled by ebay/paypal.

How do you not see that this example is completely antithetical to your anarchist perspective.

First of all, being a completely virtual domain, there is no possibility of "initiation of force" in there.

Secondly, eBay is not an independent, anarchist community, but is subject to laws of the land. If a fraud is perpetrated via eBay, or someone sells stolen items on it, or of drugs are sold online - then off to court all concerned parties go. Government rules and laws are applicable on eBay as well.

Even apart from government laws, eBay still has to work according to specific policies and directives as issued by the board members, CEO's etc. The term for that is corporate governance. Get it? The word government is built right into it. eBay/Paypal serve the role of government here.

It is not a society functioning without government. The rules of its operations are determined by the government. The policies are determined by its corporate government. All aspects of government are present and correct in this community.