(July 1, 2013 at 11:00 am)Koolay Wrote: Definition of Stealing:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stealing

Libertarians... really not my favourite kind of people. There's this in-built expectation that they owe society nothing. We are social animals. That isn't just a glib catch-all phrase, either. It is an evolutionary path that we can't escape.

The cost of living in society (and the very very many benefits that result) is that you abide by the simplest of rules... and pay your fair way. Taxation isn't theft, it is a social construct that you're free to exit at any point. Even if you were to live in a cave, you would still be indebted to society that your cave is a very safe place to live in. I mean, would you sooner live in a cave in the USA, or a cave in Afghanistan?

You are a social animal. Stop bitching about the minimal cost of that arrangement, while benefiting from everything that you gain.

(July 9, 2013 at 1:31 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: A large premise in the reason people have governments in the first place is that they believe (for the most part, rightly) that the system will safeguard the freedoms they (we) deem most important by restricting those we do not.

Can you give an example of this?

Because USA has hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations, the average citizen commits 5 crimes a day.

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(July 9, 2013 at 4:39 am)Red Celt Wrote:

(July 1, 2013 at 11:00 am)Koolay Wrote: Definition of Stealing:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stealing

Libertarians... really not my favourite kind of people. There's this in-built expectation that they owe society nothing. We are social animals. That isn't just a glib catch-all phrase, either. It is an evolutionary path that we can't escape.

The cost of living in society (and the very very many benefits that result) is that you abide by the simplest of rules... and pay your fair way. Taxation isn't theft, it is a social construct that you're free to exit at any point. Even if you were to live in a cave, you would still be indebted to society that your cave is a very safe place to live in. I mean, would you sooner live in a cave in the USA, or a cave in Afghanistan?

You are a social animal. Stop bitching about the minimal cost of that arrangement, while benefiting from everything that you gain.

Well if your only 'argument' is saying shut up and deal with it. Then I won't pretend that this is a rational conversation.

(July 9, 2013 at 6:08 am)Koolay Wrote: Well if your only 'argument' is saying shut up and deal with it. Then I won't pretend that this is a rational conversation.

And while you're doing that, take pleasure in the fact that society gave you the ability to communicate your irrational thoughts with language, the written word, hell... add in the basics of clean drinking water and the luxury of an easy and hygienic disposal of your excrement. (that you don't send here, instead)

Without society you would have nothing and be nothing. Taxation allows for that to continue. Even for the little children who have their tantrums and yell "mine! mine! mine!", wanting to take everything without giving anything in return.

If taxation is theft, then the benefits that you achieve (from better people than you) is also theft. To say that it is anything else is to eschew any idea of rationality, so stop claiming rationality as a virtue.

(July 9, 2013 at 6:08 am)Koolay Wrote: Can you give an example of this?

Because USA has hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations, the average citizen commits 5 crimes a day.

And whose ass did you pull that statistic out of.

The fact that most of the US population isn't in jail shows how much their liberties and rights are safeguarded.

(July 9, 2013 at 6:33 am)genkaus Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 6:08 am)Koolay Wrote: Can you give an example of this?

Because USA has hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations, the average citizen commits 5 crimes a day.

The fact that most of the US population isn't in jail shows how much their liberties and rights are safeguarded.

Such a lack of empathy... 'as long as I am not being whipped it's okay!'

(July 9, 2013 at 6:35 am)Koolay Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 6:33 am)genkaus Wrote: The fact that most of the US population isn't in jail shows how much their liberties and rights are safeguarded.

Such a lack of empathy... 'as long as I am not being whipped it's okay!'

On the contrary, I see that the only ones being whipped are the ones who deserve whipping.

By the way, you keep saying how the government tramples on people's liberties and murders so many people daily - can you give any specific examples?

(July 9, 2013 at 6:43 am)genkaus Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 6:35 am)Koolay Wrote: Such a lack of empathy... 'as long as I am not being whipped it's okay!'

On the contrary, I see that the only ones being whipped are the ones who deserve whipping.

That is evil...

(July 9, 2013 at 8:04 am)Koolay Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 6:43 am)genkaus Wrote: On the contrary, I see that the only ones being whipped are the ones who deserve whipping.

That is evil...

That is justice.

(July 9, 2013 at 6:08 am)Koolay Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 1:31 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: A large premise in the reason people have governments in the first place is that they believe (for the most part, rightly) that the system will safeguard the freedoms they (we) deem most important by restricting those we do not.

Can you give an example of this?

Because USA has hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations, the average citizen commits 5 crimes a day.

Well, ignoring your made-up statistic, how about the restriction on other people from simply being able to kill you without repercussions to preserve the be oft-held notion of preservation of life, or how about restricting the capability of taking whatever you want from others in order to preserve the concept of ownership?


You could hardly have picked a worse question. I know precious little of political philosophy, but even I have some awareness of what are the [intended] purposes of rights.

Koolay, I am not a big fan of many governments either, but who will help take action when corporations attack?

(July 9, 2013 at 8:26 am)genkaus Wrote:

(July 9, 2013 at 8:04 am)Koolay Wrote: That is evil...

That is justice.

Evil? Justice? That is revenge. At the most, law ENFORCEMENT.