Those verses are about predestination, and they show for a certainty that god of the bible is malevolent. I'm just glad it's a fairy tale, or we might have real reason to worry.

(September 2, 2013 at 7:04 am)John V Wrote:

(August 31, 2013 at 3:00 am)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Everyone has wondered about this: why is there so much evil and suffering in the world if God is supposedly loving and able to stop it?

The Bible says that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Doesn't he know about every act of evil that ever was and ever will be? Why does he allow this suffering to happen? Doesn't he care?

Romans 9

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

I.e., God wanted to make a more complete revelation of himself in order to have a deeper relationship with the "vessels of mercy."

Right.

(September 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Right.

Wow, great comeback!

(September 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm)John V Wrote:

(September 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Right.

Wow, great comeback!

(September 2, 2013 at 7:04 am)John V Wrote:

(August 31, 2013 at 3:00 am)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Everyone has wondered about this: why is there so much evil and suffering in the world if God is supposedly loving and able to stop it?

The Bible says that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Doesn't he know about every act of evil that ever was and ever will be? Why does he allow this suffering to happen? Doesn't he care?

Romans 9

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

I.e., God wanted to make a more complete revelation of himself in order to have a deeper relationship with the "vessels of mercy."

In other words:

God's a glory hound who doesn't mind staging some tragedy so that he can swoop in and be the hero.

Nice!

---

(September 2, 2013 at 11:23 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Those verses are about predestination, and they show for a certainty that god of the bible is malevolent. I'm just glad it's a fairy tale, or we might have real reason to worry.

Exactly. For some reason, that's a difficult thing for Christians to understand. The god of the bible is ANYTHING but good for humanity.

But, they can keep on dreaming.

(August 31, 2013 at 3:00 am)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Everyone has wondered about this: why is there so much evil and suffering in the world if God is supposedly loving and able to stop it?

The Bible says that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Doesn't he know about every act of evil that ever was and ever will be? Why does he allow this suffering to happen? Doesn't he care?

No, he doesn't. Please let me explain.

Some Christians say that God allows evil into the world because he has a master plan. So, basically, every murder, rape and abortion that has happened and ever will happen was by His design. He allows us to do these horrible things, so basically we are doing his will, and have not sinned in any way, or ever can.

Another defense is that God is God, and he is allowed to do anything he wants and so whatever we want is irrelevant. That again falls back onto the murder, rape and abortion atrocities. Does a god that does these things because he wants to sound like a good one?

What about free will? Doesn't God give us that? Of course not. He knows everything, and is planning every second of our existence. We are all merely pieces of his puzzle. Satan was his design. So was the Holocaust. What about the 2.4 million deaths in the Bible? God did all those, and quite often, if you research the OT, you'll see that he is quite pleased with himself.

But, as many of you are already thinking, the real answer is that there is no God. If there truly was a God that "loves love and hates hate" then existence would be a lot more pleasurable than it is. Following reasoning and study, we can obviously see that existence has no guiding force. Our fates are not decided. If they were, I would want nothing to do with so evil of a God as the one in the Bible.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...illed.html
http://godisimaginary.com/i6.htm

-or

Maybe God is simply not bound to your definition or understanding of the word love.

That's right. We've evolved past what goatfuckers 2000 years ago thought of as love.

Drich, have you ever read Nineteen Eighty Four?

Yeah...

(September 2, 2013 at 10:11 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 31, 2013 at 3:00 am)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Everyone has wondered about this: why is there so much evil and suffering in the world if God is supposedly loving and able to stop it?

The Bible says that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Doesn't he know about every act of evil that ever was and ever will be? Why does he allow this suffering to happen? Doesn't he care?

No, he doesn't. Please let me explain.

Some Christians say that God allows evil into the world because he has a master plan. So, basically, every murder, rape and abortion that has happened and ever will happen was by His design. He allows us to do these horrible things, so basically we are doing his will, and have not sinned in any way, or ever can.

Another defense is that God is God, and he is allowed to do anything he wants and so whatever we want is irrelevant. That again falls back onto the murder, rape and abortion atrocities. Does a god that does these things because he wants to sound like a good one?

What about free will? Doesn't God give us that? Of course not. He knows everything, and is planning every second of our existence. We are all merely pieces of his puzzle. Satan was his design. So was the Holocaust. What about the 2.4 million deaths in the Bible? God did all those, and quite often, if you research the OT, you'll see that he is quite pleased with himself.

But, as many of you are already thinking, the real answer is that there is no God. If there truly was a God that "loves love and hates hate" then existence would be a lot more pleasurable than it is. Following reasoning and study, we can obviously see that existence has no guiding force. Our fates are not decided. If they were, I would want nothing to do with so evil of a God as the one in the Bible.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...illed.html
http://godisimaginary.com/i6.htm

-or

Maybe God is simply not bound to your definition or understanding of the word love.

In which case it isn't love. Whether or not it is evil is still open - it could be total indifference, or it is merely the implementation of God's agenda on us which has nothing to do with any of these things (assuming his existence of course).

(September 1, 2013 at 4:20 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: Because according to your own theology, god doesn't care how good you are, only that you believe in him.

When a convivted serial killer can repent before being executed and get into heaven yet a good man can be sent to hell for the monstrous crime of not believing.

How can god seriously care about character?

I don't think you're giving God enough credit here.

Do you think that a last minute plea is enough for God to forgive a sinner?

For one, who's to say that "serial killer" is mentally fit? Recent studies have surfaced about damage to the brain and murderers.

And why would a "good man" go to hell? There is enough scripture according to the Son of God, telling us differently: "I know my followers, and they know me." There are also followers of another flock."

There is nothing that Jesus says that limits us from going to heaven. All we need do is what He said to enter heaven: "Love God, with all your heart, mind and strength. "Love one another, as yourself." [and the new commandment] "Love one another as I have loved you." By acting like Jesus, you are His follower.

Pretty simple? But, maybe not so easy. Jesus also said:

Matt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.