Quote:is it any surprise to learn that the greatest figure in the history of Western civilization, the man on whom the most powerful and influential social, political, economic, cultural and religious institution in the world -- the Christian church -- was built, the man worshipped, literally, by billions of people today -- is it any surprise to hear that Jesus never even existed?

Substitute the word "Osiris" for "Jesus" and I'm sure the priests of Karnak would agree.

Religion is always the same shit. The Egyptian religion last twice as long as this xtian bullshit. I guess that means it is twice as true?

(September 19, 2013 at 1:27 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:is it any surprise to learn that the greatest figure in the history of Western civilization, the man on whom the most powerful and influential social, political, economic, cultural and religious institution in the world -- the Christian church -- was built, the man worshipped, literally, by billions of people today -- is it any surprise to hear that Jesus never even existed?

Substitute the word "Osiris" for "Jesus" and I'm sure the priests of Karnak would agree.

Religion is always the same shit. The Egyptian religion last twice as long as this xtian bullshit. I guess that means it is twice as true?

Christians worship the monotheist God of Abraham.
Abraham lived in pagan Mesopotamian times. (Moon gods and Ziggurats)
Wanna argue about whose God came first?
...since theres no point arguing which God/religion is the most long-standing.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about, asshole.

Learn reality if you want to get in on the conversation.

Someone seems flustered.

(September 19, 2013 at 2:10 am)Lion IRC Wrote:

(September 19, 2013 at 1:27 am)Minimalist Wrote: Substitute the word "Osiris" for "Jesus" and I'm sure the priests of Karnak would agree.

Religion is always the same shit. The Egyptian religion last twice as long as this xtian bullshit. I guess that means it is twice as true?

Christians worship the monotheist God of Abraham.
Abraham lived in pagan Mesopotamian times. (Moon gods and Ziggurats)
Wanna argue about whose God came first?
...since theres no point arguing which God/religion is the most long-standing.

There is no evidence any Abraham actually existed, no evidence any abraham was ever mentioned in any myth until 6th century BC and the babylonian exile, no evidence your jews actually worshipped anything other than standard cannite polytheistic dieties before the 9th century BC, no evidence infact for any monotheistic god whatsoever Having been worshiped anywhere by anyone before 13th century BC. And no, your "monotheist god of Abraham" was not even the earliest known monotheistic god. Your "monotheistic god of abraham" bullshit loses to egyptian variety of polytheistic bullshit by at least 21 centuries. The very concept of monotheism losses to Egyptian pantheon by at least 18 centuries.

If you go outside of Egypt, then there is solid evidence for polytheistic that not only predates when your ilk thinks your "monotheistic god of abraham" created the universe by 7000 years, but solid evidence that these polytheistic dieties were continuously worshipped for 9000 years, 3000 years longer than your ilk thinks the whole universe had existed.

So fuck off again.

Live by the following rule and you will improve yourself: whenever you think your Christianity allow your to trump anyone else, know that you are most certainly wrong.

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(September 19, 2013 at 2:38 am)Lion IRC Wrote: Someone seems flustered.

So says the joker hoisted upside down by his own patard.

(September 19, 2013 at 2:43 am)Chuck Wrote: ...There is neither evidence for any Abraham..

FALSE. The bible documents the oral history evidence for Abraham and Terah. If you dont like the oral tradition or oral history as evidence/testimony bad luck. The bible documents oral history.

(September 19, 2013 at 2:43 am)Chuck Wrote: ...nor for any monotheistic god whatsoever before 13th century BC.

FALSE. The monotheistic concept of a Sky God predates pagan polytheism. (See Karen Armstrongs book - A History of God.)
You need one first single primitive notion of a divine being before you can go on to develop ideas of there perhaps being MORE THAN ONE.

(September 19, 2013 at 3:09 am)Lion IRC Wrote: You need one first single primitive notion of a divine being before you can go on to develop ideas of there perhaps being MORE THAN ONE.

Really? Why?

Isn't Moses supposed to have been a priest of Akhenaten who fled Egypt one the King died and Egypt returned to its polytheistic routes?

"Akhenaten (/ˌɑːkəˈnɑːtən/;[1] also spelled Echnaton,[7] Akhenaton,[8] Ikhnaton,[9] and Khuenaten;[10][11] meaning "living spirit of Aten") known before the fifth year of his reign as Amenhotep IV (sometimes given its Greek form, Amenophis IV, and meaning Amun is Satisfied), was a Pharaoh of the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt who ruled for 17 years and died perhaps in 1336 BC or 1334 BC. He is especially noted for abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism and introducing worship centered on the Aten, which is sometimes described as monotheistic or henotheistic. An early inscription likens the Aten to the sun as compared to stars, and later official language avoids calling the Aten a god, giving the solar deity a status above mere gods.
Akhenaten tried to bring about a departure from traditional religion, yet in the end it would not be accepted. After his death, traditional religious practice was gradually restored, and when some dozen years later rulers without clear rights of succession from the Eighteenth Dynasty founded a new dynasty, they discredited Akhenaten and his immediate successors, referring to Akhenaten himself as "the enemy" in archival records.[12]"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

Any relationship between Abraham and Moses is almost certainly entirely invented after the fact.

(September 19, 2013 at 3:09 am)Lion IRC Wrote:

(September 19, 2013 at 2:43 am)Chuck Wrote: ...There is neither evidence for any Abraham..

FALSE. The bible documents the oral history evidence for Abraham and Terah. If you dont like the oral tradition or oral history as evidence/testimony bad luck. The bible documents oral history.

Wow. You want to shift from arguing NT historicity to OT? Really?

Because, you're standing on even shakier ground in doing so. At least with the NT, you can go Jesus-of-the-gaps and slip Jesus into the cracks of our knowledge of the time. Not so with the Davidic Empire or the Exodus from Egypt. Empires that stretch from the Sinai to the Euphrates should leave evidence of themselves. We have none. A major power of the time that suffers massive supernatural plagues and loses every first born child followed by its army in the Red Sea should have been noted but there is none.

Evidence for the Global flood: 0
Evidence for the Tower of Babel: 0
Evidence for the trek through the Sinai: 0
Evidence for the bloody trail to the promised land: 0

Name a major event of the OT, zero evidence.

You really want to go there?

Stick with the NT.

The plagues of Egypt, rivers turning to blood and the darkening of the sky and all that business may have been caused by a volcanic eruption. There is some evidence that something like this happened sometime during the era. This could have been interpreted as Gods wrath.