(October 5, 2013 at 12:34 am)Heir Apparent Wrote: Please, please tell me you aren't really this dumb.

Please.

You have confused simple with stupid. Often time the answers God gives us are so simple yet true they are dismissed as stupid. Many of you ask why does God hide from us. The answer? He doesn't He is in plain sight. The problem? So many of you have diluted yourselves with this picture of God that you know not to be true, yet you over look the simplicity that Christ taught and modeled. God is not hiding. You all simply do not understand Him well enough to see He is here in plain view.

Quote:In case you are, does your holy book not say ANYWHERE that god is perfect?

indeed He is.

Quote:The question is real simple and I'm going to slow it down for you so you can understand it once:

Why. Did. A. Perfect. Being. Create. An. Imperfect. Creation?

Are we still talking about bibles?

God did not 'create' the bible.

Quote:Smacks of being a bit of a tard to me. It's like me saying I'm a master chainsaw juggler that hasn't dropped one yet and you coming to one of my demonstrations only to see me decapitate myself.

I think we have witnessed you do this twice in this thread.

Now I would like to ask you a question since you seem to be hung up on perfection.

What does it mean to be perfect to the Alpha and Omega? Is perfection a standard that He must obtain by following certain rules or criteria??? The beginning and end of all thing must submit to a standard that man judges?? Or would an alpha and Omega simple dictate the standard of perfection to reflect whatever it is He does? Which version of A/O sounds all powerful to you?

Drich Wrote:You have confused simple with stupid. Often time the answers God gives us are so simple yet true they are dismissed as stupid. Many of you ask why does God hide from us. The answer? He doesn't He is in plain sight. The problem? So many of you have diluted yourselves with this picture of God that you know not to be true, yet you over look the simplicity that Christ taught and modeled. God is not hiding. You all simply do not understand Him well enough to see He is here in plain view.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-21163-po...#pid518258

(October 5, 2013 at 12:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote: (1) God is perfect
(2) God has a will
(3) God wishes to communicate his will via the Bible
(4) If (1) - (3) are true, then God has the ability to perfectly communicate his will via the Bible
(5) The Bible isn't perfect
(C1) God isn't perfect

...and adding this little gem, courtesy of Drich...:

Drich Wrote:[6]Perfection indicates deity...

(C2) The entity that authored the Bible isn't God

which very nicely backs up my thoughts that the entity identified as "God" in the Bible is actually the devil, what, with all the mass killing and raping it commands...

God is perfect
God has a Will
(The rest of what you wrote is wrong.)

That will had God create Man perfectly.

Man fell from perfection.

Therefore man can no longer follow God's will no matter what, because man is a literal slave to sin.

This being the case man will alway need redemption, because whether he is good or bad he still falls short of Gods will.(whether or be perfectly recorded or not)

So God recordes His will in the Bible along with a plan of salvation, rather than literally writting his message into stone as He did last time.

Then He tells man this time it is not about the rules, because there is no hope that you can follow all the rules anymore. It's about redemption, so accept what I have given you and literally do all that you can with the understanding you have been given over to.

All that being true, what is the point of a perfect bible?

Drich Wrote:All that being true, what is the point of a perfect bible?

The point of a perfect Bible is that you'd be able to confirm your logic:

(October 5, 2013 at 1:00 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 5, 2013 at 12:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote: (1) God is perfect
(2) God has a will
(3) God wishes to communicate his will via the Bible
(4) If (1) - (3) are true, then God has the ability to perfectly communicate his will via the Bible
(5) The Bible isn't perfect
(C1) God isn't perfect

...and adding this little gem, courtesy of Drich...:


(C2) The entity that authored the Bible isn't God

which very nicely backs up my thoughts that the entity identified as "God" in the Bible is actually the devil, what, with all the mass killing and raping it commands...

God is perfect
God has a Will
(The rest of what you wrote is wrong.)

That will had God create Man perfectly.

Man fell from perfection.

Therefore man can no longer follow God's will no matter what, because man is a literal slave to sin.

This being the case man will alway need redemption, because whether he is good or bad he still falls short of Gods will.(whether or be perfectly recorded or not)

So God recordes His will in the Bible along with a plan of salvation, rather than literally writting his message into stone as He did last time.

Then He tells man this time it is not about the rules, because there is no hope that you can follow all the rules anymore. It's about redemption, so accept what I have given you and literally do all that you can with the understanding you have been given over to.

And since it's not, for all we know, you've incorrectly described God's Divine plan.

Does it sound like the work of a perfect being still?

(October 5, 2013 at 12:52 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Drich Wrote:You have confused simple with stupid. Often time the answers God gives us are so simple yet true they are dismissed as stupid. Many of you ask why does God hide from us. The answer? He doesn't He is in plain sight. The problem? So many of you have diluted yourselves with this picture of God that you know not to be true, yet you over look the simplicity that Christ taught and modeled. God is not hiding. You all simply do not understand Him well enough to see He is here in plain view.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-21163-po...#pid518258

Now ask yourself how did all of the men God spoke with directly, differ from you? Or deist or who ever wrote that? What did God ask them to do, that He asked you to do differently?
If God asked you to do something and you do not do it, then why would He do anything for you at all let alone coddle you into your belief?

---

(October 5, 2013 at 1:02 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Drich Wrote:All that being true, what is the point of a perfect bible?

The point of a perfect Bible is that you'd be able to confirm your logic:

(October 5, 2013 at 1:00 am)Drich Wrote: God is perfect
God has a Will
(The rest of what you wrote is wrong.)

That will had God create Man perfectly.

Man fell from perfection.

Therefore man can no longer follow God's will no matter what, because man is a literal slave to sin.

This being the case man will alway need redemption, because whether he is good or bad he still falls short of Gods will.(whether or be perfectly recorded or not)

So God recordes His will in the Bible along with a plan of salvation, rather than literally writting his message into stone as He did last time.

Then He tells man this time it is not about the rules, because there is no hope that you can follow all the rules anymore. It's about redemption, so accept what I have given you and literally do all that you can with the understanding you have been given over to.

And since it's not, for all we know, you've incorrectly described God's Divine plan.

Does it sound like the work of a perfect being still?

Oh, goodie show me Gods divine plan. Book chapter and verse please. I will be more than happy to do the same, but you show me yours first!

Drich Wrote:Now ask yourself how did all of the men God spoke with directly, differ from you? Or deist or who ever wrote that? What did God ask them to do, that He asked you to do differently?
If God asked you to do something and you do not do it, then why would He do anything for you at all let alone coddle you into your belief?

Before you ask any of that stuff, why not ask yourself why God has fallen silent? His last booming command from the clouds was 2000+ years ago. Care to explain?

---

Drich Wrote:Oh, goodie show me Gods divine plan. Book chapter and verse please. I will be more than happy to do the same, but you show me yours first!

*sigh*

Not sure if serious, or if intellectually dishonest...
You keep avoiding the point here. Your request is pointless with an *imperfect product* made by an alleged *perfect being*. Now, in what possible world would a perfect being capable of perfectly transmitting its message decide to do it imperfectly? That doesn't satisfy its *own* will, which is a ridiculous thing to happen to a perfect being.

(October 5, 2013 at 1:07 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Now ask yourself how did all of the men God spoke with directly, differ from you? Or deist or who ever wrote that? What did God ask them to do, that He asked you to do differently?
If God asked you to do something and you do not do it, then why would He do anything for you at all let alone coddle you into your belief?

Before you ask any of that stuff, why not ask yourself why God has fallen silent? His last booming command from the clouds was 2000+ years ago. Care to explain?

Seriously? Have you not read anything I have written? God speaks and interacts with His children through out their lives... So why haven't you heard anything? The same reason those who did not want to believe in Chirst 2000+ years ago heard nothing. Or simply dismissed what they did hear as the apstoles being drunks, and were playing games.

(October 5, 2013 at 1:12 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 5, 2013 at 1:07 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Before you ask any of that stuff, why not ask yourself why God has fallen silent? His last booming command from the clouds was 2000+ years ago. Care to explain?

Seriously? Have you not read anything I have written? God speaks and interacts with His children through out their lives... So why haven't you heard anything? The same reason those who did not want to believe in Chirst 2000+ years ago heard nothing. Or simply dismissed what they did hear as the apstoles being drunks, and were playing games.

Why haven't I heard anything... hmm.. I guess everytime God speaks with a booming voice, I just *happen* to be covering my ears. And everytime there's a news report on TV about God's latest booming command, I just happen to be getting up off the couch to do something else.

You're avoiding the issue again.

(October 5, 2013 at 1:07 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Now ask yourself how did all of the men God spoke with directly, differ from you? Or deist or who ever wrote that? What did God ask them to do, that He asked you to do differently?
If God asked you to do something and you do not do it, then why would He do anything for you at all let alone coddle you into your belief?

Before you ask any of that stuff, why not ask yourself why God has fallen silent? His last booming command from the clouds was 2000+ years ago. Care to explain?

---

Drich Wrote:Oh, goodie show me Gods divine plan. Book chapter and verse please. I will be more than happy to do the same, but you show me yours first!

*sigh*

Not sure if serious, or if intellectually dishonest...
You keep avoiding the point here. Your request is pointless with an *imperfect product* made by an alleged *perfect being*. Now, in what possible world would a perfect being capable of perfectly transmitting its message decide to do it imperfectly? That doesn't satisfy its *own* will, which is a ridiculous thing to happen to a perfect being.

What you fail to understand is that you assumptions are based on a legalistic understanding of the christian religion. God issues rules. one must follow rules in order to be a follower of God. therefore the media that God uses to communicate said rules must also be perfect. otherwise a perfect God can not be perfect as He has issued rules impossible to follow. Unfairness is a trait of a imperfect God.
I got your arguement. It's wrong, not a little wrong but Mormon wrong. At best you have some bastardized version of Catholicism your working with. Not biblical christianity. Are you still with me?

If you doubt biblical christianity is different than your version, simply take me up on my offer to provide BCV. I will not cut the bible up, but give you whole chapters to read to establish my points. That way you will know what I am saying is contextually consistant with how it was originally to be understood and read. (Perceived flaws and all)

My only condition is that we first explore what you believe to be the plan of salvation. That mean BVC from you.

(October 5, 2013 at 1:23 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 5, 2013 at 1:07 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Before you ask any of that stuff, why not ask yourself why God has fallen silent? His last booming command from the clouds was 2000+ years ago. Care to explain?

---

*sigh*

Not sure if serious, or if intellectually dishonest...
You keep avoiding the point here. Your request is pointless with an *imperfect product* made by an alleged *perfect being*. Now, in what possible world would a perfect being capable of perfectly transmitting its message decide to do it imperfectly? That doesn't satisfy its *own* will, which is a ridiculous thing to happen to a perfect being.

What you fail to understand is that you assumptions are based on a legalistic understanding of the christian religion. God issues rules. one must follow rules in order to be a follower of God. therefore the media that God uses to communicate said rules must also be perfect. otherwise a perfect God can not be perfect as He has issued rules impossible to follow. Unfairness is a trait of a imperfect God.
I got your arguement. It's wrong, not a little wrong but Mormon wrong. At best you have some bastardized version of Catholicism your working with. Not biblical christianity. Are you still with me?

Drich... put the doctrinal bong down... you keep spewing Apologist 101 responses to a question I haven't asked.

Here's the issue:

God is perfect. God wishes to transmit a message. He can do this *perfectly*. The Bible *isn't* perfect. Therefore, his *own* wish hasn't been met by his *own* actions. God is not perfect.