(October 10, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Except for that "God is love" part.

Yes, 1 John says "God is love." If you had actually read the entire letter, you'd know that before it says God is love, it says God is light, He is pure, and He is righteous. If we expanded to the rest of the Bible, we'd find a bunch of other things that God is - point being that god isn't all any one of these things, rather they're all attributes of God.

(October 10, 2013 at 1:27 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Except for that "God is love" part.

Yes, 1 John says "God is love." If you had actually read the entire letter, you'd know that before it says God is love, it says God is light, He is pure, and He is righteous. If we expanded to the rest of the Bible, we'd find a bunch of other things that God is - point being that god isn't all any one of these things, rather they're all attributes of God.

That doesn't make any sense?

So god is love, according to John, but...it's also not because it's everything?

(October 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 1:27 pm)John V Wrote: Yes, 1 John says "God is love." If you had actually read the entire letter, you'd know that before it says God is love, it says God is light, He is pure, and He is righteous. If we expanded to the rest of the Bible, we'd find a bunch of other things that God is - point being that god isn't all any one of these things, rather they're all attributes of God.

That doesn't make any sense?

So god is love, according to John, but...it's also not because it's everything?

I notice you guys never claim that "He is righteous" indicates that he is all righteous, or "God is light" means he's all light, and so on. God is a complex being with many attributes. He's not all any one of them.

(October 10, 2013 at 1:38 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: That doesn't make any sense?

So god is love, according to John, but...it's also not because it's everything?

I notice you guys never claim that "He is righteous" indicates that he is all righteous, or "God is light" means he's all light, and so on. God is a complex being with many attributes. He's not all any one of them.

I'm still confused. The bible does say it is love. I'm just trying to understand why the god of the bible isn't love when John says it is?

So, just again for my own clarification, what attributes does your god have?

(October 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I'm still confused. The bible does say it is love. I'm just trying to understand why the god of the bible isn't love when John says it is?

Sorry, thought you could put two and two together. "God is..." and "He is..." are idiomatic expressions John uses for a variety of attributes of God.

(October 10, 2013 at 1:59 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I'm still confused. The bible does say it is love. I'm just trying to understand why the god of the bible isn't love when John says it is?

Sorry, thought you could put two and two together. "God is..." and "He is..." are idiomatic expressions John uses for a variety of attributes of God.

4.

But, just to again clarify, despite the fact that the bible says that god is love, it isn't actually love? You're saying it's just an attribute of god, something it only shows when "x" criteria is met (presumably getting on your knees)? My that's awfully confusing isn't it? Especially when John says that it is love. Surely all the other caveats are irreverent if it is something, right?

Also, no need to apologise. I presume you love me and forgive me all my sins because you're loving...unlike your god?

(October 9, 2013 at 2:06 am)Ryantology Wrote: I do understand why Christians so gleefully justify genocide however they can.

Can you show examples of this gleefulness? Seems to me that, while some of us justify it, we're not gleeful about it.

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(October 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: But, just to again clarify, despite the fact that the bible says that god is love, it isn't actually love? You're saying it's just an attribute of god,

Correct. I don't see how anyone could read the Bible, get to that one verse, and conclude that it should be read as meaning that God is completely and only love.

You seemed to understand context earlier in the thread, when you said "that context is just as, if not more, important than the individual case study." Your current argument seems disingenuous.

(October 10, 2013 at 8:05 am)John V Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 5:39 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I do what I can.

Really? Do you eschew all non-necessary expenditures for yourself so that you can give to others? Do you give all excess time you have to others? Do you seriously think anyone believes this?

What about you, Johnny? Refusing commandments and hypocrisy are both tickets to hell, remember.

Quote:Can you show examples of this gleefulness? Seems to me that, while some of us justify it, we're not gleeful about it.

Every single example of justification is done happily. You wouldn't justify it if you weren't glad that it took place.

(October 10, 2013 at 2:37 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: But, just to again clarify, despite the fact that the bible says that god is love, it isn't actually love? You're saying it's just an attribute of god,

Correct. I don't see how anyone could read the Bible, get to that one verse, and conclude that it should be read as meaning that God is completely and only love.

You seemed to understand context earlier in the thread, when you said "that context is just as, if not more, important than the individual case study." Your current argument seems disingenuous.

Come along John, then I was talking about the reality of a multifaceted, complex interwoven system of structures that contribute (and/or exacerbate) cyclical poverty.

Here we're talking about whether to take a statement in a fairy tale prima facie or not. So you'll forgive me (because you're full of love for your fellow man) for not seeing the equivalence.

regardless of whether you 'see' it or not, my (and several others) interpretation of the bible is that it says god is love. I've had a lot of theists say that of their version of god, regardless of what it is (many Xtians).

Interpretation is key. It's the only thing that one can rely on on the bible. But if you're saying your god only uses love when it sees fit, then I'll take your word for it. Sounds bit like an arsehole, though. Like a father who beats and rapes his child.

(October 10, 2013 at 2:51 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Every single example of justification is done happily. You wouldn't justify it if you weren't glad that it took place.

That's stupid. One can justify prisons and wars without being happy that they exist.