(October 14, 2013 at 11:38 am)John V Wrote: It doesn't say it's Joseph's house.

That's the natural conclusion. We will just have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

Quote:That IF it COULD be a fan fic, then NOW it ISN'T a fan fic.

Actually, it is. You outlined the plot of a fan fic to reconcile this problem with the Gospels. Whether you actually write it out or not is beside the point because you're still employing the same tactic to solve the problem.

Quote:You're now trying to backpedal from the original claim.

No, I still maintain that you're fan fic-ing to reconcile that problem. Any "backpedaling" is you reading into my posts what's not there. Ironic, no?

Quote:God's intention is that we need to study scripture to properly understand it.

Well, then your god is a bad communicator and acts like a spoiled teenager ("You don't understand me") when the message isn't understood.

...or maybe your god is made up and the reason the Bible is so provincial, both in the culturally anachronistic communication style and the limited area of initial publication (couldn't God drop off copies all over the world without the need of human missionaries or speak to an occasional prophet outside the Middle-Eastern region?) is because Yahweh is the product of human beings.

You can guess which one of these options I regard as more likely.

(October 14, 2013 at 12:41 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: That's the natural conclusion. We will just have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The natural conclusion is that they were in a house - no more. you add that it's Joseph's in order to create a problem that isn't there.

Quote:Actually, it is. You outlined the plot of a fan fic to reconcile this problem with the Gospels. Whether you actually write it out or not is beside the point because you're still employing the same tactic to solve the problem.

No, I still maintain that you're fan fic-ing to reconcile that problem. Any "backpedaling" is you reading into my posts what's not there. Ironic, no?

I'm not reading into your posts - I quoted you saying "entire" fan-fic, and now you're backpedaling because you're clearly wrong.

Quote:Well, then your god is a bad communicator and acts like a spoiled teenager ("You don't understand me") when the message isn't understood.

...or maybe your god is made up and the reason the Bible is so provincial, both in the culturally anachronistic communication style and the limited area of initial publication (couldn't God drop off copies all over the world without the need of human missionaries or speak to an occasional prophet outside the Middle-Eastern region?) is because Yahweh is the product of human beings.

You can guess which one of these options I regard as more likely.

Or, as I noted, God is using a common teaching technique.

(October 12, 2013 at 11:51 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I'm working on the next installment of my series, The Jesus Timeline. In the first few videos, I focused on placing the ministry of Jesus on a timeline set against the historical landmarks in the Gospels. Needless to say, it was a mess.

This video, I'm painstakingly mapping out all of the events in the Gospels and comparing them to one another.

I'm genuinely surprised as to just how bit a mess it is.

I'd thought that the Synoptics would have their story relatively straight and John's would contradict them all. I'm finishing up with Luke now and have found that all three of the so-called "synoptic" (similar) Gospels... aren't. Each one has their own order of events.

I hadn't noticed it before because all three have similar "episodes" (walking on water, etc) but the order is different for all of them.

It just gets better and better.

How did anyone EVER believe this crap?

The christ is a MYTH - there NEVER was such a being on the earth.

WHile there MIGHT (ANd we have no reason to believe that as well) have been a HUMAN upon whom the exaggerations and myths and legends of the fictional christ started - it certainly got out of hand early on.

It is clear that the "bible" is nothing more than a collection of myths and legends - all fiction - of a group of ancient goat herders in a mountainous region of the middle east - who clearly made up much of this - and added it to the things they got from other religions they were exposed to.

If there was a "Jesus of Nazareth" from that time - then he was a corpse - since Nazareth was nothing more than a burial place - it was NOT a city with a temple at the supposed time of the christ.

Of course - "Jesus" never lived at that time -there was NO letter "J" in any language of the time - and not until the 1400's or so. SO we can actually say there that JESUS did not live.

THe time was the golden age of Rome - to say that we have poor records of the time is nonsense - we have more records of that time that many times in the Dark Ages - even to the point of records of the results of turtle races in Rome. THERE is not a single document that we have - from the supposed time of the christ - that even mentions his name - NONE AT ALL.

It is interesting to note that - especially in LUKE - the writer of the fiction clearly did not know much about that actual area - since the sequence of cities is wrong in travels.

A woman - late in her pregnancy - who was forced to travel to Bethlehem in that area would surely have lost her child or had other problems.

Rome did not return bodies of crucifixions - they were left on the crosses for scavengers - the idea that they did so - on the basis of religious belief of a captured group - is actually quite humorous.

Rome also did not crucify thiefs - so that part of the story is simply obvious nonsense

People have written whole books on the subject of why the bible is fiction - why it has contradictions and has physically wrong things - events - and claims.

People only believe this because they were forced to NOT QUESTION it when they were young. However - today - religion is waning in the Western world - and especially among younger people - who often are religious only to prevent family problems but actually do not believe.

But - there are 7 Billion people in the world - and some of them are simply too stupid to see the problems.

IF you want to know what is the correct religion - ask THEIST themselves. THey will gladly give you LOTS of logical and reasonable reasons why every religion is false!

(October 14, 2013 at 12:59 pm)John V Wrote: The natural conclusion is that they were in a house - no more. you add that it's Joseph's in order to create a problem that isn't there.

So you've claimed repeatedly in the last few posts. I'm really not fond of an endless stream of "Nuh uh" "Yeah huh" exchanges so it's past time we agreed to disagree on this point. I've stated my case and you've stated yours. Time to turn it over to the readers to decide for themselves.

Quote:I'm not reading into your posts - I quoted you saying "entire" fan-fic, and now you're backpedaling because you're clearly wrong.

It's neither clearly wrong nor am I backpedaling. You've decided to fan fic your way out of the problem and have written the plot. Whether or not you write it out is beside the point. What part of this are you having trouble with?

Quote:Or, as I noted, God is using a common teaching technique.

A bad one. We may have to agree to disagree on this point as well.

[quote='DeistPaladin' pid='524723' dateline='1381773325']

Quote:It's neither clearly wrong nor am I backpedaling. You've decided to fan fic your way out of the problem and have written the plot. Whether or not you write it out is beside the point. What part of this are you having trouble with?

The part where you equate a couple sentences to an entire fan-fic. it is clearly wrong, and you are indeed backpedaling.

Quote:A bad one. We may have to agree to disagree on this point as well.

OK - I think most people understand that there can be value in researching and thinking through a topic.

(October 14, 2013 at 2:17 pm)John V Wrote: OK - I think most people understand that there can be value in researching and thinking through a topic.

Not when communicating a message.

Good communication is characterized by brevity, consistency and most of all, clarity.

The Bible is 0 for 3.

(October 14, 2013 at 2:22 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Not when communicating a message.

Good communication is characterized by brevity, consistency and most of all, clarity.

The Bible is 0 for 3.

As already noted, according to the Proverbs verse, God isn't simply trying to communicate a brief message.

Quote:OK - I think most people understand that there can be value in researching and thinking through a topic.

Not when you begin with the premise that "my god is the real god - now what stupid shit can I say to make someone believe it."

All right, who farted?!?

Oh, that was just a Minnie post...never mind...

(October 14, 2013 at 2:37 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 14, 2013 at 2:22 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Not when communicating a message.

Good communication is characterized by brevity, consistency and most of all, clarity.

The Bible is 0 for 3.

As already noted, according to the Proverbs verse, God isn't simply trying to communicate a brief message.

The Christian message isn't really a complicated one. Its just the NT and those damn letters from Paul that screw it up, and then the misinterpretations which go on forever because its not clear.

Now if God had been smart and got better writers in......