(December 13, 2013 at 6:38 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 13, 2013 at 6:28 am)Kiko Wrote: How about you tell me what it is about history that makes women as good at leading as men.

Men took leadership positions in prehistoric times when societal needs were vastly different and big, manly muscles were kinda important. Nowadays, intelligence is a more important leadership trait than muscles, but culture has a nasty habit of lagging; because of that, there are plenty of people like yourself who seem to think men make better leaders without any good reasons for it.

So you think it's ok for one particular gender to be the main leaders most of the time based on their strengths. Me too.

Funny how men are still at the forefront of practically every major area of life on earth. You see, you wouldn't have complained a few thousand years ago about men being the leaders, for the simple reason that your survival would have totally depended on them, and you wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds you.

But now, thanks to the innovations of, drum roll...men, you have the luxury of living in a world where muscles and constant hardship are not quite as necessary as before. And yet, funnily enough, it's still men who are at the forefront of all the major areas of life. Politics, business, science, exploration, inventions, etc etc etc.

It is still men who drive society forward in all the ways that they do. If an experiment were conducted in which women disappeared for 5 years, it wouldn't have that much of an impact on the world. But take away men for even a week, and your entire world will fall apart.

Everything about your life is how it is because of men, their strengths, skills, and leadership. Women are nurturers, that's their strength. Stop trying to be like a man, you can never compete.

Calling out bullshit in 3...2...1....

(December 13, 2013 at 7:09 am)Kiko Wrote: So you think it's ok for one particular gender to be the main leaders most of the time based on their strengths. Me too.

Totally not what she said.

Quote:Funny how men are still at the forefront of practically every major area of life on earth. You see, you wouldn't have complained a few thousand years ago about men being the leaders, for the simple reason that your survival would have totally depended on them, and you wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds you.

Ofcourse not thousands of years ago. Don't you think society has changed a little nowadays though? I mean, I dunno... we don't exactly need a man to throw a spear to catch a boar for dinner anymore. We can go to the supermarket and buy our bacon. The only reason men were dominant in prehistory is because, like almost all animals the male is the stronger. Henceforth they can slap a woman down if they're getting too rowdy. Or at least in those days that's what they probably did.

But the thing is we don't live in a society that rewards brute strength anymore. Your point about survival depending on the male is completely irrelevant in this day and age.

Quote:But now, thanks to the innovations of, drum roll...men, you have the luxury of living in a world where muscles and constant hardship are not quite as necessary as before. And yet, funnily enough, it's still men who are at the forefront of all the major areas of life. Politics, business, science, exploration, inventions, etc etc etc.

I guess you're basing this information on the prevalence of men in modern day positions of power right?

It's true, men appear to be in the majority when it comes to politics, business, science and all that other shit. BUT to sit there and ignorantly suggest that it's because somehow men are better than women at these specific things is flagrantly indicative of your understanding of the world.
If that were the case how do you account for these women:

http://discovermagazine.com/2002/nov/fea...qrzjPRdVK0

Or these women:

http://www.women1st.co.uk/top-100

Or any of these women:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0801534.html


The fact that men get more airtime than women in this day and age is simply a knock on effect from the monopoly that the male gender has had for thousands of years. The truth is, men are no better or worse than women at doing any of the things you have mentioned. There are more men doing them sure, but it doesn't make them better. You have to take into account other factors than simply ability.

Quote:It is still men who drive society forward in all the ways that they do. If an experiment were conducted in which women disappeared for 5 years, it wouldn't have that much of an impact on the world. But take away men for even a week, and your entire world will fall apart.

This level of ignorance is astounding.

Quote:Everything about your life is how it is because of men, their strengths, skills, and leadership. Women are nurturers, that's their strength. Stop trying to be like a man, you can never compete.

Get in the 21st century bro.

Just because of misogyny in the past, because there was just no opportunity for women to have jobs with "power", doesn't mean that gender makes you fit to rule. Don't mistake tradition for fact.

Yeah, stupid thinking boy here makes me think of a story I heard.

A little girl is learning to bake a ham from her mom. The first thing the mother does is cut the end off the ham. The girl is puzzled. "Mommy?" she asks, "Why do you cut the end off the ham?" Her mother replies "That's how my mom taught me to do it." The girl still wants to know, though, so she finds her grandmother and asks her "Grammy, why did you teach mommy to cut the end off a ham?" The grandmother simply said "I taught her to cook it the same way my mother taught me to bake it." She was still determined, though, and luckily her gread-grandmother was still alive. Undaunted, she went to the great-grandmother and asked her "Why did you teach Grammy to cut the end off the ham?" This time, the great-grandmother responded with a laugh. "I only cut the end off because the ham was 15 inches long and I had a 13 inch pan!"

The moral is, sometimes we carry on these traditions and we don't even know why we have them and sometimes, if you actually bother to learn why we stated those traditions in the first place, you realize that they aren't really necessary anymore, not to mention outdated traditions are plain ol' unhelpful.

Translate this to the conversation. Why did men get into positions of power before? Muscle helped them force their way into power, no doubt. You could even make a case for women being mostly breeding stock (and from a purely evolutionary standpoint, it kindamakes sense, even if it is still highly unethical). Generally, though, if you examine those reasons and compare them to the modern world we live in, you quickly realize that primarly masculine leadership is about as necessary as cutting the end off the ham.

Ok so pray tell, how did the patriarchy start?

(December 13, 2013 at 10:05 am)Kiko Wrote: Ok so pray tell, how did the patriarchy start?

You could at least try a bit harder when someone challenges you on your shit.

It's not about how it started. It's about the merit of your assertion that men are better than women in regards to all the fields of study you listed and whether they are secondary to men at performing in positions of power. You need a better reason to back yourself up than "men have been in power throughout history" or "it was started off men" or "men are in power now".

Just because the world gives you the impression that men are better at certain things than women is not enough reason to believe it. How about you investigate what you're saying and back it up with fact. There is no instance of a position of power in today's modern world that a woman wouldn't be able to effectively manage provided she had the same intellectual capacity as her male counterpart.

You are 100% wrong in what you're suggesting.

(December 13, 2013 at 10:16 am)Napoléon Wrote:

(December 13, 2013 at 10:05 am)Kiko Wrote: Ok so pray tell, how did the patriarchy start?

You could at least try a bit harder when someone challenges you on your shit.

It's not about how it started. It's about the merit of your assertion that men are better than women in regards to all the fields of study you listed and whether they are secondary to men at performing in positions of power. You need a better reason to back yourself up than "men have been in power throughout history" or "it was started off men" or "men are in power now".

Just because the world gives you the impression that men are better at certain things than women is not enough reason to believe it. How about you investigate what you're saying and back it up with fact. There is no instance of a position of power in today's modern world that a woman wouldn't be able to effectively manage provided she had the same intellectual capacity as her male counterpart.

You are 100% wrong in what you're suggesting.

But how did the patriarchy start? That's what I'm asking. Talk me through it. What are its origins? How did it develop? If you don't know the answer to that, is there anyone here who does and who could explain it?

So you're not going to defend the shit you blurted out or acknowledge it as bollocks, but are instead going to deflect responsibility for your claims? K. Now I know not to waste any more time here.

(December 13, 2013 at 10:19 am)Kiko Wrote: But how did the patriarchy start? That's what I'm asking. Talk me through it. What are its origins? How did it develop? If you don't know the answer to that, is there anyone here who does and who could explain it?

Have you read anything, anyone has posted since you started off on this misogynistic tangent of yours?

The best guess is, men put themselves in power a few thousand years ago, back when sheer muscle was enough to put/keep yourself in power. They also instituted religious dogma that justified their positions of power by saying it was gods will. Those traditions were carried on, from one generation to the next, never really being questioned. Now that people are questioning them, we're finding that they aren't really important anymore.

kiko wrote:

Quote:

(December 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: You know, I never really thought of myself as someone with feminist beliefs until I lived in Latin America and encountered the male chauvinism that is rampant in other parts of the world and how disgusting it is. It pushed me towards slightly more feminist viewpoints.

That's their culture. In those parts of the world they do things a certain way, and it works for them. Let's live and let live. The american indians lived a certain way, and then white folks came along and sneered at their lifestyle. Not good.

What makes you think it works for them? In my experience and personal observations, it works for the men in some ways, but not for women. I should know.