Don't mean to sound trollish- may come off that way, but I'm posting in good faith.

My question is, what is the point of the new sciences like astrophysics, quantum physics, etc. when the discoveries the research yields are so arcane that it doesn't even matter to anyone or change anything or help anyone?

I'm gonna pay for that, aren't I...

(December 28, 2013 at 3:29 pm)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote: Don't mean to sound trollish- may come off that way, but I'm posting in good faith.

My question is, what is the point of the new sciences like astrophysics, quantum physics, etc. when the discoveries the research yields are so arcane that it doesn't even matter to anyone or change anything or help anyone?

I'm gonna pay for that, aren't I...

Science is built like a pyramid. The foundation is basic science / research, which investigates fundamental questions of the universe and physics; on top of that is applied science, using the theoretical underpinnings discovered by basic science to investigate "nature as she is"; on top of that comes engineering and technology, being the use of the findings of applied science to construct useful things, such as medicine, bridges, and computers.

Some of the more arcane findings have to do with probing the basic laws of the universe, so that we can investigate extrapolations of them in the fields of applied science. Three prominent ways of doing so are cosmology / astrophysics, research using accelerators or other tools which explore the properties of matter at extremes, and quantum physics. The reason for cosmology and astrophysics is, the universe as a whole acts as something of a giant magnifying glass for the basic properties of "stuff" and matter. By knowing how much stuff exists, what kind, and how that totality of stuff has unfolded throughout the history of the universe, we can reverse-engineer what must be true of all the stuff in the universe, from the small to the big. As to particle accelerators, when the universe was young, because it occupied a small space at extreme energies relative to now, matter behaved differently than it does now; only by raising matter to those energies can we determine how it behaved back then, and similar to before, we can reason backward to find novel behaviors of matter at current energies which we aren't currently aware of. Quantum physics has obvious use to applied physics, but one nuance is not obvious, that being that the equations which describe the behavior of matter at this scale reveals unexpected and counter-intuitive behaviors. By getting a more accurate picture of the actual mathematical description of the behavior, we're able to reveal novel properties of matter which are, effectively, hiding in plain sight.

All three basic sciences contribute a base of knowledge for applied science. Applied science refines that base into specific examples of the behavior of our universe. The bounty produced by applied science is used by engineers and other technologists to create technology which improves our quality of life in multiple ways, from helping us live longer, healthier lives and lowering our mortality rate, to getting the most benefit from the resources our environment has to offer, to allowing us to live lives filled with material goods, near instantaneous global communication, and access to storehouses of knowledge and wisdom undreamed of by prior generations.

So, in short, we pursue basic research because, ultimately, it helps us lead better lives.

I'd imagine that people have said that about the cutting edge of science for 1000 years. The point is that we don't always know the practical application of new sciences. Radiation research probably seemed worthless at first and now we can treat cancer and heat up a burrito with it.

Well science takes care of all the things god can't do. Without science more people will die. We wouldn't have treatments for colds,pneumonia, chicken pox, cancer...

2000 years ago people didn't know about cells, DNA, or atoms. They didn't have technology.. So they could not figure these things out and started to make up stuff to feel better. So they made god, gods, and goddesses that was the answer to everything...then came science. We learned what makes our bodies and planet. We learned why we heal, why is rains, why is goes from day to night, why its cold in the winter and hot in the summer.
We still need science to evolve, live, find cures for cancers...

Research science is like exploration. You set out not knowing what you'll find let alone the value of what you'll find. Scientists have the spirit of explorers, they dedicate years of study and passion into something just for the sake of discovering knowledge, the lucky few will find gold, the others will pave the way for future scientists. Mendel died without receiving any recognition of his findings, but it was, in hindsight, one of the greatest findings of all time and when coupled with the theory of evolution, allowed us to finally have a grasp on the science of inheritance. What was the point of growing bacteria in agar plates? But that's how they found penicillin which saved millions of lives. What is the point? The point is that we do not yet know, therefore we owe it to ourselves to find out.

(December 28, 2013 at 3:29 pm)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote: Don't mean to sound trollish- may come off that way, but I'm posting in good faith.

My question is, what is the point of the new sciences like astrophysics, quantum physics, etc. when the discoveries the research yields are so arcane that it doesn't even matter to anyone or change anything or help anyone?

I'm gonna pay for that, aren't I...

Yes...why what good could possibly have come from this?

Honestly questions like these, this short sighted mentality makes me worried about the future of science as funding gets siphoned away from basic research. Science is the greatest thing our species has ever achieved, it is the most awe inspiring journey that has been undertaken by many many many hardworking scientists, toiling away years after years in their labs, when most people around them do not see any significance in their work. It is a group effort, you can't just look at that legacy and say, what's the point? You're not making me this particularly cool toy so why not just stop wasting my money. Come on! Did you think computers were invented overnight?!

He probably thinks they were "created."

Quote:My question is, what is the point of the new sciences like astrophysics, quantum physics, etc. when the discoveries the research yields are so arcane that it doesn't even matter to anyone or change anything or help anyone?

This reminds me of the story (probably apocryphal, since a similar story is told of Benjamin Franklin) of Michael Faraday and Queen Victoria. It seems that HRH was being given a tour of Faraday's laboratory, where the scientist patiently explained his work in electromagnetism. The tour culminated in Faraday's demonstration of his dynamo. Her Royal Imperiosity said, 'It is all very interesting, but of what use is it?'

Faraday, without hesitation, asked the queen, 'Madam, of what use is a newborn baby?'

True or not, the story points up something which as always been the case in science: what you discover or invent today may have little practical or immediate use, but you grandchildren are going to love you for it, because you found out something that made their lives easier.

Even on the off chance that research into quantum- or astrophysics never yields any practical results, so what? We are a curious species (always have been) and knowledge, like virtue, is its own reward.

Boru

Next he's going to ask what's the point of music.

Enjoyment exists in science just as it does in art.