Two options for a believer:

1) There is sufficient evidence to believe the Jesus/God claims in the bible, therefore no faith* is required to believe.

2) There is not sufficient evidence to believe (on evidence alone), which is why faith is required.

Let's imagine Christianity is true, then the following occurs:

Any additional evidence that people find, e.g. they find Noahs Ark/prove the existence of God through logic/ find genuine non christian evidence of Jesus etc push you from 2) towards 1). Eventually you reach a point where faith is not required.

This would be fine, except Christians argue that God purposefully doesn't make his existence obvious** (some claim this would negate free will). So as more and more data supporting Christianity emerges, this plan to not be believed in, apart from those with faith, is slowly ruined.

It also means that people nowadays are unfairly treated (sent to hell for not believing), compared to times in the future where more evidence is available and they are therefore less likely to not believe and get sent to hell***.

It just doesn't make any sense, or does it?

* Faith here is defined as belief without sufficient evidence.
** If an ominpotent God wanted everyone to believe iit exists, it would be able to do this.
*** Even if no hell, Christians almost always argue there are benefits to being a Christian, making life more pleasureable and tend to include life after death which is seen as a massive positive.

(January 13, 2014 at 7:11 pm)FreeTony Wrote: Two options for a believer:

1) There is sufficient evidence to believe the Jesus/God claims in the bible, therefore no faith* is required to believe.

2) There is not sufficient evidence to believe (on evidence alone), which is why faith is required.

Let's imagine Christianity is true, then the following occurs:

Any additional evidence that people find, e.g. they find Noahs Ark/prove the existence of God through logic/ find genuine non christian evidence of Jesus etc push you from 2) towards 1). Eventually you reach a point where faith is not required.

This would be fine, except Christians argue that God purposefully doesn't make his existence obvious** (some claim this would negate free will). So as more and more data supporting Christianity emerges, this plan to not be believed in, apart from those with faith, is slowly ruined.

It also means that people nowadays are unfairly treated (sent to hell for not believing), compared to times in the future where more evidence is available and they are therefore less likely to not believe and get sent to hell***.

It just doesn't make any sense, or does it?

* Faith here is defined as belief without sufficient evidence.
** If an ominpotent God wanted everyone to believe iit exists, it would be able to do this.
*** Even if no hell, Christians almost always argue there are benefits to being a Christian, making life more pleasureable and tend to include life after death which is seen as a massive positive.

Also unfairly treated compared to people in biblical times. You know, all those earnest 1st century fact checkers who had hard evidence that the resurrection really happened.

It seems like God really wants people to go to hell, especially skeptical ones.

God is a dick....but then, look at the primitives who created him.

How does staying hidden the only way to prevent the loss of free will?
When I was a child I saw my parents and had free will at the same time. My free will got me in trouble a lot.
How is it any different with a god? I would still have free will if he was standing in front of me.

(January 13, 2014 at 7:11 pm)FreeTony Wrote: Two options for a believer:

1) There is sufficient evidence to believe the Jesus/God claims in the bible, therefore no faith* is required to believe.

2) There is not sufficient evidence to believe (on evidence alone), which is why faith is required.

3)God is real and will provide whatever is needed to establish and maintain 'belief' IF one simply can humble himself to approach God on His terms and not our own.

Quote:Let's imagine Christianity is true, then the following occurs:

Any additional evidence that people find, e.g. they find Noahs Ark/prove the existence of God through logic/ find genuine non christian evidence of Jesus etc push you from 2) towards 1). Eventually you reach a point where faith is not required

Any evidence found will be boiled down to include only the evidence itself. In 'science' a hand full of bone fragments confirms ALL of prexisting theories of Homo erectus. If Noah's ark were found, it would only be proof of a really big boat shape was found on a mountain.. Then it would be dismissed as some goat hearders attempt to fool future generations to the vality of the story he conjoured up.

Quote:This would be fine, except Christians argue that God purposefully doesn't make his existence obvious** (some claim this would negate free will). So as more and more data supporting Christianity emerges, this plan to not be believed in, apart from those with faith, is slowly ruined.

Christians are not the ones making those claims.

Quote:* Faith here is defined as belief without sufficient evidence.

How much faith did Christ say that is required? That of a mustard seed. Everyone has been given that amount of faith.

Quote:*** Even if no hell, Christians almost always argue there are benefits to being a Christian, making life more pleasureable and tend to include life after death which is seen as a massive positive.

If a Christian is telling you that change the channel (because only tv preachers seem to believe this.)

The bible tells us the oppsite. God did not spare His own Son from Hardship and death, why would we expect anything different? Are we better than Christ?

(January 14, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Drich Wrote: 3)God is real and will provide whatever is needed to establish and maintain 'belief' IF one simply can humble himself to approach God on His terms and not our own.

So all the ex Christians/Pastors were doing it correctly for many years, then God decided to pull the plug?

No, they do not want evidence, they want what suits their own desires, like Muslims and Jews and Hindus. If you want to believe something badly enough nothing that solidly refutes it will get in your way.

(January 14, 2014 at 4:00 pm)FreeTony Wrote:

(January 14, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Drich Wrote: 3)God is real and will provide whatever is needed to establish and maintain 'belief' IF one simply can humble himself to approach God on His terms and not our own.

So all the ex Christians/Pastors were doing it correctly for many years, then God decided to pull the plug?

why do you assume God pulled the plug?

at the end of the day, you can't prove god doesn't exist, so, therefore, your argument is invalid.