(January 24, 2014 at 9:29 am)enrico Wrote: Atwater being a good and fair researcher take in consideration all point of view that is why she report the point of view of everybody even those who do not agree with NDE seeing God and afterlife.
So your point in showing that there are skeptics means nothing at all.

So in your tallying the evidence, if it's evidence for NDEs meaning something, it counts for something. If it's evidence against it, it counts for nothing. That means you're only counting the positive evidence. Of course if you only count the positive evidence, the evidence will be positive, because you've chosen to only count that positive evidence. Atwater may be a competent person, but you are not. If you are only counting the positive evidence, like you say, then your accounting of the evidence means nothing, because you intentionally excluded the negative evidence for bad reasons.

The negative evidence does mean something. It means there is evidence against NDEs meaning what you say they mean. And since that's the only evidence presented so far, ALL THE EVIDENCE is negative.

You want good evidence you say? Well I'm sure this guy is going to ignore everything you just said, but I think Enrico is about to give you some evidence for something. His next response will be very good evidence to support that he is delusional... Or stupid. I hope I'm not giving him too much credit by giving him the benefit of the doubt in the form of a delusional possibility.

I think this is a strong possibility:

The Dunning-Kruger effect, named after David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University, occurs when incompetent people not only perform a task poorly or incompetently, but lack the competence to realize their own incompetence at a task and thus consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

(January 4, 2014 at 8:19 am)enrico Wrote: But enrico beliefs are not based on dogmas so every time you try to knock them down you only knock your head on a hard brick wall and your pursuit get nowhere but because of your blind faith in your dogmas you keep on insisting hoping to finish the business.

I'll agree with the first part; dealing with you is akin to banging one's head against a brick wall.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote:

(January 22, 2014 at 4:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Ah. So you can't name ten. Colour me surprised.

As a detective you would be a total failure.

And as a witness you would be a complete joke. I never claimed to be a detective, but if I were and you kept dancing around after being asked to substantiate your claims, like you are doing right now, I'd have you thrown into the drunk tank before you could say "wasting police time".

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: What a good detective would do when he can't get 100% solid evidence?
He would try to build up a mosaic that represent some or total evidence with whatever he got.

Only the reliable, relevant evidence. He wouldn't bother trying to cobble together a case based on any old fairy tale that takes his fancy. Not and want to keep his job, anyway.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: So piece by piece he would build this mosaic.
Now as i just explain to R.salesman we got these first Christians who were prepared to be eaten alive by beasts in the arena.

Except, of course, that the reliable evidence for such xtians vs wild beast extravaganzas is precisely zero. But you should be used to that by now.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: This is a good piece of evidence that show that Jesus was teaching a very strong spirituality capable of overcoming the physical reality.

Ah, the old 'why would they die for a lie' canard. Just to recap:

Early xtians went to their deaths against lions etc in the arena, despite the fact that the evidence shows that no such things happened, therefore everything Jesus said and did is real and true. And this is "good evidence" to you? Wanna buy a bridge?

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: Also the gospel of Jesus the Christ is a good way to know about Jesus extraordinary things.
Why is that?
Because what is written in this book go hand in hand with what is taught by Shiva, Krishna and many other great personality.

And guess what? It's all totally irrelevant. You made the claim that "thousand of people witness Jesus doing things", whereupon I asked you to name some of them in an attempt to point out that anonymous witnesses in a story from a single source don't qualify as reliable evidence in any sane and rational world, however many of them there may be.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote:

Quote:And please stop winking at me; I'm not that desperate.

Again you show that you wouldn't be a good detective.
You came to a quick conclusion thinking that a wink means a certain thing but you find difficult to imagine that to me this wink mean something else.

Again you show that you're a joyless buffoon. I was taking the piss - just about all you've made yourself useful for - but I also wanted to make the point that I find it rather annoying when used as punctuation as you do.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: Some people wink to somebody else in order to tell them.....YOU SEE I MAKE YOU FOOL ONCE AGAIN.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

(January 24, 2014 at 10:37 am)enrico Wrote: But please don't ask me what i mean.

Why, have we reached the stage where even you haven't got a clue what you mean as well?

(January 24, 2014 at 12:49 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: Enrico, everything you've said is intellectually bankrupt. There is no evidence to support your claims, you've ignored every objection I raised against your ideas, and have been unable to describe the nature of this "nonphysical stuff" or even map out anything its necessarily responsible for. You haven't eliminated material explanations or reconciled the complete incompatibility of what you believe with reality. You are either a complete loon, and the epitome of delusional, or you're stupid. You continue to drone on and on about senseless concepts without establishing a single bit validity that make them coherent thoughts. If you make some sense here, I'd gladly concede your points. But you aren't making ANY points, nor are you making attempts at rational discourse. You just insist on repeating the same stupid things that have already been ripped apart by literally everyone on here, and you ignore all of the objections only to repeat yourself again. What you HAVE accomplished is give me plenty of reasons to make 1 of 2 conclusions about you. 1) You are delusional 2) You're a complete fucking idiot. Unless, and until you decide to respond to the things that people say to you, I must either assume that your delusion prevents you from recognizing the crippling flaws in your beliefs which would support you being delusional, or the latter conclusion, you are literally to fucking stupid realize how fucking stupid you are.

The reason why i may repeating the same things is because you guys keep on procrastinate the same dogmas and can not produce any evidence to back up your claims that life is finite that there is no God that physical science is able to deliver real progress that people with a degree are more successful then those without and so on.
On top of this no one here has been able to explain what is the difference between religion and spirituality what is the inner meaning of philosophy and so on.
This is a total disaster but you guys pretend that is me that procrastinate dogmas.
You are in a total mental mess but instead of waking up and grow up you keep on masturbating your brains.

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(January 24, 2014 at 2:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: the reliable evidence for such xtians vs wild beast extravaganzas is precisely zero.

You are a joke Stimbo.
You negate all the evidence that the first Christians were given to the lions in the arena and then you believe that fighters enter Troy inside a wooden horse.
Gee, this is behind the joke.
I don't know whether i should laugh or cry. hock:
Let me ask few question.
Why in Rome there are catacombs?
Why inside the Colosseum there are cages where were kept lions and other beast?
Why the Latin writers described that the first Christian were persecuted and why they described that these Christians were given to the lions?

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(January 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 24, 2014 at 9:29 am)enrico Wrote: Atwater being a good and fair researcher take in consideration all point of view that is why she report the point of view of everybody even those who do not agree with NDE seeing God and afterlife.
So your point in showing that there are skeptics means nothing at all.

So in your tallying the evidence, if it's evidence for NDEs meaning something, it counts for something. If it's evidence against it, it counts for nothing. That means you're only counting the positive evidence. Of course if you only count the positive evidence, the evidence will be positive, because you've chosen to only count that positive evidence. Atwater may be a competent person, but you are not. If you are only counting the positive evidence, like you say, then your accounting of the evidence means nothing, because you intentionally excluded the negative evidence for bad reasons.

The negative evidence does mean something. It means there is evidence against NDEs meaning what you say they mean. And since that's the only evidence presented so far, ALL THE EVIDENCE is negative.

You are making a hell of a confusion.
These guys are just skeptics which has nothing to do with saying that they produce any evidence.
Where suppose to be their evidence?
They got no evidence at all.
I already explained why some people experience an NDE and other do not.
God give something to those who need help in their road to perfection.
If someone is not interested in making any spiritual progress they will not be given any help in this sense.
It is like a normal relationship in which the one who is interested in the other party will get a reply.
Physically speaking the reply may be positive or negative but in spirituality the reply will always be positive as the negative does not exist in spirituality.
The Skeptic that you are concern about being not interested in spirituality got no response at all and that is quite natural.
Capish?

So, Enrico isn't familiar with the concept of sarcasm it seems.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote:

(January 24, 2014 at 2:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: the reliable evidence for such xtians vs wild beast extravaganzas is precisely zero.

You are a joke Stimbo.

Well, you ought to know.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: You negate all the evidence that the first Christians were given to the lions in the arena

Nope, I just refute your bald assertion that there is evidence.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: and then you believe that fighters enter Troy inside a wooden horse.

Where the hell did I ever say that? Please provide the link to a single quote of me saying any such thing in your very next reply, otherwise apologise for such a gross misrepresentation.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: Gee, this is behind the joke.

Beyond a joke. And yes, I quite agree. Not, i suspect, for the same reasons you have in what it pleases you to call your mind.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: I don't know whether i should laugh or cry. hock:

I should take a break from the forum for a while if I were you, if posting here is having such an effect on you. Connect with reality for a change.

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: Let me ask few question.
Why in Rome there are catacombs?
Why inside the Colosseum there are cages where were kept lions and other beast?
Why the Latin writers described that the first Christian were persecuted and why they described that these Christians were given to the lions?

Are you going to answer my question or are you conceding defeat?

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote:

(January 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm)rasetsu Wrote: The negative evidence does mean something. It means there is evidence against NDEs meaning what you say they mean. And since that's the only evidence presented so far, ALL THE EVIDENCE is negative.

You are making a hell of a confusion.
These guys are just skeptics which has nothing to do with saying that they produce any evidence.
Where suppose to be their evidence?
They got no evidence at all.

You can deny it's evidence until you're blue in the face, it's still negative evidence, and you're still wrong.

And neither of the things quoted came from skeptics. The IANDS is not skeptics. You're just saying they are so you can deny the evidence.

Jesus Christ this thread is still going?

(January 25, 2014 at 10:22 am)Stimbo Wrote: Are you going to answer my question or are you conceding defeat

After R.salesman wrote.............Hundreds of thousands witness the acts of the Zeus and Neptune. Odysseus left behind his legacy in The odyssey as written by Homer..........you post something but did not comment about what R.salesman said.
Now being in a forum you either agree or disagree with what the participants say unless you are a zombie that got in this forum for unknown reasons.
If you make no comment about what the people say then i have to come to the conclusion that you either agree with what was said or you are a zombies that got in this thread by unknown reasons.
Of course you never said that the fighters got inside Troy in a wooden horse following R.Salesman ideas so in this case if we follow the statement of what was said then i certainly will have to apologize and in this sense i do apologize on the other hand i do not believe for a minute in your professional honesty as if you wouldn't agree with what R.Salesman said you should have said so.
As far as you asking me to provide witnesses about Jesus extraordinary things the only way to understand what really happened is to follow logic and the evidence that we got so far.
The logic is that the first Christians would not have gone through the martyrdom unless they were given a tremendous mental and spiritual force coming from Jesus teaching.
Considering that these teaching delivered such a tremendous strength i presume that the teacher had tremendous power able to do extraordinary things.
This is logic.
As far as testimonials there are plenty.
http://www.jaysromanhistory.com/romeweb/...rslion.htm

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(January 25, 2014 at 12:02 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 25, 2014 at 9:27 am)enrico Wrote: You are making a hell of a confusion.
These guys are just skeptics which has nothing to do with saying that they produce any evidence.
Where suppose to be their evidence?
They got no evidence at all.

You can deny it's evidence until you're blue in the face, it's still negative evidence, and you're still wrong.
And neither of the things quoted came from skeptics. The IANDS is not skeptics. You're just saying they are so you can deny the evidence

These researchers go along with statistics and then they work out who is right and who is wrong.
Unfortunately they are not getting how the system works.
As i just said in previous post God does not give a NDE to everyone who die and then come back to life so it is quite normal that a number of people do not experience anything at all.
Adding this up to their skepticism it is normal that they will come up with the wrong idea.
So at the end what did you prove?
Nothing absolutely nothing.
You just keep on asking stupid questions that don't make any sense at all.
Something like Stimbo when he is asking to provide witnesses for events happened 2000 years ago.
Going along this way is a form of mental masturbation.
The only way is to follow logic but so far i have seen very little of it.

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(January 25, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Jesus Christ this thread is still going?

Thanks for your tremendous contribution to this thread.
One of the problem that we are experiencing is that most of the people participating in this thread are still trying to work out how to answer and to give evidence to some questions like ........the life is finite, God does not exist and so on.
In the mean time i agree to give them time to work out these questions but i can not wait for ever that is why i give them time until the next Christmas.
I apologize again for the length of this thread but you got to be patient considering their difficulties.