(March 3, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Indeed, there are things in the bible that can give rise to confusion.

You'd think a 'god' would be a better communicator, wouldn't you?

That's what I've been trying to say. He's not just evil. He's incompetent.

(March 3, 2014 at 8:13 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(March 3, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You'd think a 'god' would be a better communicator, wouldn't you?

That's what I've been trying to say. He's not just evil. He's incompetent.

Yea...He is incompetent alright....so incompetent He......

Well.....let me just allow Napoleon to tell you......


“I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself have founded great empires. But our empires were founded on force. Jesus alone founded His empire on love, and to this day millions would die for Him. I think I understand something of human nature, and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man. Jesus Christ was more than man.”
“I have inspired multitudes with a devotion so enthusiastic that they would have died for me. But to do this it was necessary that I should be visibly present with the electric influence of my looks, my words, my voice. Who cares for me now removed as I am from the active scenes of life, and from the presence of men? Who would now die for me?”
“Christ alone across the chasm of eighteen centuries makes a demand which is beyond all others difficult to satisfy. He asks more than a father can demand of his child, or a bride of her spouse, or a man of his brother. He asks for the human heart. He will have it entirely to Himself. He demands it unconditionally, and forthwith His demand is granted.”
“Wonderful! In defiance of time and space, the soul of man with all its powers and faculties becomes an annexation to the empire of Christ. This phenomenon is unaccountable; it is altogether beyond the scope of man’s creative powers.”
“Time, the great destroyer, is powerless to extinguish this sacred flame. This is what strikes me most. This is what proves to me quite convincingly that Jesus Christ is God.” -Napoleon



Or we can meditate on these words:

One Solitary Life....


He was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where He worked in a carpenter shop until He was 30. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a house. He didn't go to college. He never traveled more than 200 miles from the place He was born. He did none of the things one usually associates with greatness. He had no credentials but Himself. He was only 33 when public opinion turned against Him. His friends deserted Him. He was turned over to His enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves. When He was dying, His executioners gambled for His clothing, the only property He had.. . . on earth. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend. Nineteen centuries have come and gone, and today He is the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind's progress. All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as that One Solitary Life. Do You Know Who He Is?


That is about as far from incompetence as I can imagine.

We have more evidence for Napoleon and his empire than Jesus and his. Even the exodus and the massacres of the "promised land" are up for debate. Trust me, there's had to be a lot of force and threats to spread christianity this far. Christianity is not a religion of love and peace. It is one of genocide and intolerance. I'm afraid Napoleon didn't know what he was talking about, since he obviously wasn't thinking of crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, and so forth. If Jesus existed, he was far from the only one who espoused charity and empathy, and I haven't heard of Hindus going around slaughtering those who didn't convert.

Yeah, one death. Your deity, sacrificing himself to himself, to save us from himself. He cursed us for something we didn't do, created hell for those who don't follow him, and I'm not even sure an all powerful being can even lose anything. To become less powerful. He is far from the central figure of the human race, and far from being conclusively proven to have existed at all.

My point stands.

(March 3, 2014 at 8:48 pm)Chad32 Wrote: We have more evidence for Napoleon and his empire than Jesus and his. Even the exodus and the massacres of the "promised land" are up for debate. Trust me, there's had to be a lot of force and threats to spread christianity this far. Christianity is not a religion of love and peace. It is one of genocide and intolerance. I'm afraid Napoleon didn't know what he was talking about, since he obviously wasn't thinking of crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, and so forth. If Jesus existed, he was far from the only one who espoused charity and empathy, and I haven't heard of Hindus going around slaughtering those who didn't convert.

Yeah, one death. Your deity, sacrificing himself to himself, to save us from himself. He cursed us for something we didn't do, created hell for those who don't follow him, and I'm not even sure an all powerful being can even lose anything. To become less powerful. He is far from the central figure of the human race, and far from being conclusively proven to have existed at all.

My point stands.

Setting aside the fact that you continue to judge Christianity by the deeds of them that abuse it rather than the deeds of them that act in accordance with its teachings, I ask you:

Do you believe you have the ability to choose what you believe?

I'm not sure. My beliefs change through life experiences, but I don't think I could just choose to believe something I know isn't true.

I'm confused as to why I should care what Napoleon, a man whose historical reputation is that of an ambitious and arrogant dictator, thinks about Jesus?

When he and his army were done slaughtering people, did they all gather round the campfire afterward "thanking God" for their "victories?"

The reason Christianity takes such a beating is because it is often preached by those who are hypocrites.

(March 3, 2014 at 8:56 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I'm not sure. My beliefs change through life experiences, but I don't think I could just choose to believe something I know isn't true.

You are not sure if you choose to believe what you do?

Is that what you are saying?

(March 3, 2014 at 11:21 am)discipulus Wrote:

(March 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You really think that if you continually remind people about the little bit of good that some christians do, that we'll forget about the beast behind the curtain? Christianity is not and has NEVER been a cure-all by any stretch of the imagination. Even the credit your religion gets for helping children is nullified by the fact that there is always an agenda behind it. It's extremely difficult to imprint adults. The malleable mind of a child can be taught to believe anything and therefore, makes them a target for the cult of jesus.

You insult the intelligence of everyone here by glossing over the atrocities of christians by using that tired cop-out, "they weren't TRUE christians." Well, if history has taught us anything it's that Christianity always speaks for itself and that cherry picking the tiny bit of sweet corn out of a turd does not make it any more edible.

Then let us debate the issue. I have asked one already and he refuses.

If you are convinced then let us debate the issue, just you and I.

Debate what issue? Why would anyone debate something as stupid and pointless as whether or not Christians do more for children?? It's going to be a futile tongue-wagging exercise full of unprovable assertions and endless rabbit trails into your religious bias.

Now if you want to discuss something far more tangible and not subject to hearsay and a myriad of internet links, I will consider that.

(March 3, 2014 at 9:00 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I'm confused as to why I should care what Napoleon, a man whose historical reputation is that of an ambitious and arrogant dictator, thinks about Jesus?

When he and his army were done slaughtering people, did they all gather round the campfire afterward "thanking God" for their "victories?"

The reason Christianity takes such a beating is because it is often preached by those who are hypocrites.

Just like Joshua!

Quote:You are not sure if you choose to believe what you do?

Is that what you are saying?

That's not something I contemplate often. What of it?

(March 3, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(March 3, 2014 at 11:21 am)discipulus Wrote: Then let us debate the issue. I have asked one already and he refuses.

If you are convinced then let us debate the issue, just you and I.

Debate what issue? Why would anyone debate something as stupid and pointless as whether or not Christians do more for children?? It's going to be a futile tongue-wagging exercise full of unprovable assertions and endless rabbit trails into your religious bias.

Now if you want to discuss something far more tangible and not subject to hearsay and a myriad of internet links, I will consider that.

Are you an atheist?

---

(March 3, 2014 at 9:00 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I'm confused as to why I should care what Napoleon, a man whose historical reputation is that of an ambitious and arrogant dictator, thinks about Jesus?

When he and his army were done slaughtering people, did they all gather round the campfire afterward "thanking God" for their "victories?"

The reason Christianity takes such a beating is because it is often preached by those who are hypocrites.

I did not direct that quote to you so I am not sure why you would think I did.

Christianity and Christ's church has taken and does take many beatings from many different people for many different reasons. But as one has said:

"It is the peculiarity of the Church of God‥to endure blows, not to give them; but yet you will be pleased to remember, that it is an anvil on which many a hammer has been broken."
[1853 G. De felice Hist. Protestants of France I. II. v. 156 (tr. Beza to King of Navarre, 1562)]