(March 4, 2014 at 6:18 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(March 4, 2014 at 5:57 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: They just try and twist the Bible's words. You have to read the whole thing in context.

So you're just going to condemn it without even reading it?

Then good luck with your close minded little life inside the little box of ignorance that you have made for yourself.

I'm done here, this person is just too stupid.

Same here. It's arguing with the deaf. Not worth wasting my time.

Last thing. That mind that "god" gave you. Use it a little, don't be scared, it won't bite.

(March 4, 2014 at 6:35 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 4, 2014 at 6:29 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: But so many other people, including like everyone I know, agrees with them. And Christianity seems to do nothing but good for them.

Popularity doesn't determine reality, though. Like, okay, example: I just posted a link in another thread today to a pair of christian parents who just went to jail because they didn't get their child medical care, and the kid died of rickets. To take him to a doctor would be a sin, they said. This kind of thing isn't that rare, either.

For starters, has christianity done any good for that poor kid? Or any of the other kids that die or get hurt because of this? You know, statistically, fundamentalist religion is correlated with higher rates of child and spousal abuse, has christianity done any good there?

But more importantly, what if your parents and everyone you knew was that kind of christian? What if they were slowly killing themselves, or you, because to get you medical attention would be a sin? Would you place their faith above the well being and lives of the people around you?

Well my parents would say that those people aren't real Christians, that they're crazy. I once asked my dad what he would do if God told him to kill me, and he said it wouldn't do that, but knows that God would never ask something like that from him. So obviously he's not THAT crazy about it.

(March 4, 2014 at 6:38 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: Well my parents would say that those people aren't real Christians, that they're crazy. I once asked my dad what he would do if God told him to kill me, and he said it wouldn't do that, but knows that God would never ask something like that from him. So obviously he's not THAT crazy about it.

Whoa, hold on there, cowboy: what are you using to determine that they're not true christians? I mean, aside from the fact that they're saying the same thing about you, there are passages all over the bible where trusting in god's plan is put above the health and welfare of your family; you're even told to kill them if they try to make you waver in your faith!

Bearing that in mind though, what are you using to determine they're crazy? It's clearly not the bible, since the tenets of your religion says something different. In this case, you're using secular ethics that specifically go against what the bible would encourage you to do, from certain perspectives.

Oh, and why wouldn't god tell your dad to kill you? Do you not know the story of Abraham and Isaac, where god did exactly that? He didn't let it happen, but the point is that he asked, Abraham was prepared to go through with it, so it was clearly in the character of god to do so.

(March 4, 2014 at 6:48 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 4, 2014 at 6:38 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: Well my parents would say that those people aren't real Christians, that they're crazy. I once asked my dad what he would do if God told him to kill me, and he said it wouldn't do that, but knows that God would never ask something like that from him. So obviously he's not THAT crazy about it.

Whoa, hold on there, cowboy: what are you using to determine that they're not true christians? I mean, aside from the fact that they're saying the same thing about you, there are passages all over the bible where trusting in god's plan is put above the health and welfare of your family; you're even told to kill them if they try to make you waver in your faith!

Bearing that in mind though, what are you using to determine they're crazy? It's clearly not the bible, since the tenets of your religion says something different. In this case, you're using secular ethics that specifically go against what the bible would encourage you to do, from certain perspectives.

Oh, and why wouldn't god tell your dad to kill you? Do you not know the story of Abraham and Isaac, where god did exactly that? He didn't let it happen, but the point is that he asked, Abraham was prepared to go through with it, so it was clearly in the character of god to do so.

What you're talking about is Old Testament. My parents always talk about how the Old Testament was just for the people of the time, and that God is different now because he doesn't have to follow the law.

(March 4, 2014 at 6:49 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: What you're talking about is Old Testament. My parents always talk about how the Old Testament was just for the people of the time, and that God is different now because he doesn't have to follow the law.

Well, your parents might say that, but you know, Jesus disagrees: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

That's Jesus talking, in Matthew. Evidently, the law has not changed from the old testament, unless you're saying your parents know more about christianity than Jesus does?

But also, what you're saying there is that there was a time when it was moral to kill your family for your religion. Do you actually think that's true, and what changed between then and now to make killing your family not okay?

I would suggest though that since this individual has pretty much gone into preach mode it might be time for Molinjor?

(March 4, 2014 at 6:57 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 4, 2014 at 6:49 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: What you're talking about is Old Testament. My parents always talk about how the Old Testament was just for the people of the time, and that God is different now because he doesn't have to follow the law.

Well, your parents might say that, but you know, Jesus disagrees: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

That's Jesus talking, in Matthew. Evidently, the law has not changed from the old testament, unless you're saying your parents know more about christianity than Jesus does?

But also, what you're saying there is that there was a time when it was moral to kill your family for your religion. Do you actually think that's true, and what changed between then and now to make killing your family not okay?

He came to fufill the law by dying on the cross. All that stuff he was talking about, he meant it was still in place until he gave his life.
People needed the law to survive.

(March 4, 2014 at 6:57 am)Esquilax Wrote: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. "

Culture time!
Iota, what is an iota?
iota is a greek letter, loosely corresponding to our letter 'i'.
Here's how it looks: ι (small, it's like an i without the dot), Ι (capital).

Oh, and about the dot... it seems the latin alphabet added quite a few dots to everything that had been written in greek... good thing the OT wasn't written in greek, huh?

Carry on!

(March 4, 2014 at 7:05 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: He came to fufill the law by dying on the cross. All that stuff he was talking about, he meant it was still in place until he gave his life.
People needed the law to survive.

That's not what "all is accomplished" means. To interpret the bible as you have you need to literally ignore the sentence right after the one you're focusing on.

That's the problem with this religion: you can spin it to mean anything you want, if you're willing to. Kinda means it doesn't say anything consistent.

(March 4, 2014 at 7:18 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 4, 2014 at 7:05 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: He came to fufill the law by dying on the cross. All that stuff he was talking about, he meant it was still in place until he gave his life.
People needed the law to survive.

That's not what "all is accomplished" means. To interpret the bible as you have you need to literally ignore the sentence right after the one you're focusing on.

That's the problem with this religion: you can spin it to mean anything you want, if you're willing to. Kinda means it doesn't say anything consistent.

I know my parents would say "all is accomplished" would mean when Jesus saved our souls through his death on the cross. Did he not say "it is finished"?