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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:28 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:09 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: If true understanding requires me to turn my brain off and accept demonstrably false things as truth, then you can keep it.
If you are arguing that the Bible may contain errors, but that doesn't invalidate anything in it, by what authority do you choose which parts are in error, and which aren't? And doesn't this give anyone license to pick and choose parts of the Bible that they want to apply? Isn't this a slippery slope?
For some perhaps... But I try to listen to God. Its what is "right"...not what someone tells you is right.
So, if you do whats "right"... you know you are doing God's will. Pretty simple! eh?
I don't stumble on words in a book. Especially if men wrote them. I do discern the bible. And I believe the Gospel as "true". At least the messages of what Jesus says is "right". I don't believe a mear man could've made that up!
There are just too many truths, and ironies to throw my Bible in the fiction section of my library!
(March 12, 2014 at 11:20 am)Deidre32 Wrote: The "real" truth according to Jewish people? Mormons? Muslims? Christians?
Truth comes from reality. Religion isn't built on reality. It's built on fear and wishful thinking.
But... what is reality? Honestly
If you truly don't know, that's why you accept the counterfeit version of it.
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:28 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:27 am)ronedee Wrote: The problem is: we are on two sides of a flowing river! You don't know whats on my side....yet! And I've been on your side too long! Is that an assumption? Many of us have been on that other side of the river.
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:32 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:26 am)Deidre32 Wrote: Do you believe the Qur'an is the inspired word of God, ronedee?
Muslims believe so. Who is "right?"
Debating a Christian is like this:
Reality: 2+2=4
Christian "reality:" I believe it equals 5, don't know why, I just do!
Ugh.
Deidre! I don't know? Really!
All I know is that I have a relationship with God, through Jesus! And everything works for me! I'm happy and peaceful. And so is my family, and friends in Jesus.
The people who you complain about are the minority. Who are in some cases no better than the people that they condem.
But...there is a growing number in the church, that are evolving as "true" spiritual beings! Its pretty amazing actually! I've never seen anything like it. These people are transcending the bullshit...for lack of a better term!
Its changing Deidre!
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:33 am
(March 12, 2014 at 4:06 am)Esquilax Wrote: (March 11, 2014 at 7:23 pm)discipulus Wrote: And anyway, what is it about the moral views of Christians that is so bad?
I couldn't just let this pass, because your post that follows displays such a breathtaking ignorance of (or dishonesty towards) your own holy book, that I had to add some corrections.
Break out the asterisks!
Quote:Do not murder, oh wow! That is such a horrible thing to say!
* Except if they're of other tribes, other religions, other sexualities, practice witchcraft, are disobedient children, are slaves, are apostates...
Quote:Do not steal, oh wow! I would never want my child to hear that!
* Just do it in a church and call it tithing instead!
Quote:Do not hate people or think evil of others because they happen to have different religious views, my goodness, what a horrible thing to teach a child!
*Just murder them if they even think about converting you! Oh, and think evil of them for the right reason, which is that everyone is evil by dint of being human, so much so that god needs to kill himself just to forgive them!
Quote:You are special and of infinite worth, oh no! My kids should never be told that!
*Special, but also super vile and worthless! Needs saving!
Quote:Do not have sex before marriage! Yikes! I want my kids to have all kinds of premarital sex so they can just contract all kids of diseases and have pleasure at the expense of their dignity and honor!
*Yeah! How will you be able to sell your daughters for the right amount of money if they keep slutting it up! And just go ahead and murder anyone who uses their naughty bits outside of the pre-approved manner! Also, no safe sex, because... um, no! 
Quote:Love your neighbor as you love yourself!, Woah wait a minute, that is just evil!!!!
*Unless they differ in their beliefs in any way. Also, you might be able to enslave them.
Quote:In all things, do unto others as you would have them do to you! May it never be!!!!
*Unless you're one of god's chosen people! Then you can act any way you want and expect no treatment in kind, because god!
Quote:Wow, you're right, those Christians should be shot for forcing their evil morality on us!
Come on man really? hock:
If all those asterisks haven't clued you in, I'll say it plain: you are a dishonest conman.
The asterisked portions of your post demonstrate to me you have a lot of misconceptions about Christian teachings.
Most objections against Christianity that I have heard are based on these misconceptions.
If you would like for me to provide you with some references of arguments against Christianity that are not based misconceptions I would be delighted to.
: )
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2014 at 11:37 am by ronedee.)
(March 12, 2014 at 11:28 am)LostLocke Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:27 am)ronedee Wrote: The problem is: we are on two sides of a flowing river! You don't know whats on my side....yet! And I've been on your side too long! Is that an assumption? Many of us have been on that other side of the river.
Which river is that? The Religious River? Or... The Spiritual River?
If its the Religious one? You're still there!
(March 12, 2014 at 11:15 am)LostLocke Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 10:55 am)ronedee Wrote: The Real Truth?.... The real truth.
You only need to capitalize the first word in a sentence in English.
The truth
The Truth
The real truth
The Real Truth
They're all the exact same thing you know.
Its CALLED: EmPhAsiS AdDeD
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:42 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: For some perhaps... But I try to listen to God. Its what is "right"...not what someone tells you is right. Are you truly saying that your impression as to what is right is not colored by anyone? As a Catholic, not even the pope? Not even the things you hear on the "news" or in media?
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: So, if you do whats "right"... you know you are doing God's will. Pretty simple! eh?
I don't stumble on words in a book. Especially if men wrote them. I do discern the bible. And I believe the Gospel as "true". At least the messages of what Jesus says is "right". I don't believe a mear man could've made that up! So the truth of the Gospels, for you, has nothing to do with the veracity of the stories? What about the vastly different stories about Jesus' birth in the Gospels. How do you reconcile the VERY different Jesus protrayed in the crucifixion stories in Luke and Mark?
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: There are just too many truths, and ironies to throw my Bible in the fiction section of my library! Here is my over-arching point: There are details that are different. Details like whether Jesus was crucified in the third hour (Mark 15:25) or the sixth hour (John 19:14-15) that don't add anything to the interpretation of the story, as some apologists will say. They are just contradictions. When there are this many factual contradictions (see Esquilax's link), at what point does the human-ness of this work call the whole thing into question?
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:46 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:34 am)ronedee Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:28 am)LostLocke Wrote: Is that an assumption? Many of us have been on that other side of the river.
Which river is that? The Religious River? Or... The Spiritual River?
If its the Religious one? You're still there!
(March 12, 2014 at 11:15 am)LostLocke Wrote: The real truth.
You only need to capitalize the first word in a sentence in English.
The truth
The Truth
The real truth
The Real Truth
They're all the exact same thing you know.
Its CALLED: EmPhAsiS AdDeD OK, so the first part is the no true Scotsman, right? 
Emphasis yes. But often times people who capitalize Truth, think it has more meaning than just truth.
Not saying that's you, but when talking about Jesus, Truth doesn't mean any more than truth.
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:47 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:42 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: For some perhaps... But I try to listen to God. Its what is "right"...not what someone tells you is right. Are you truly saying that your impression as to what is right is not colored by anyone? As a Catholic, not even the pope? Not even the things you hear on the "news" or in media?
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: So, if you do whats "right"... you know you are doing God's will. Pretty simple! eh?
I don't stumble on words in a book. Especially if men wrote them. I do discern the bible. And I believe the Gospel as "true". At least the messages of what Jesus says is "right". I don't believe a mear man could've made that up! So the truth of the Gospels, for you, has nothing to do with the veracity of the stories? What about the vastly different stories about Jesus' birth in the Gospels. How do you reconcile the VERY different Jesus protrayed in the crucifixion stories in Luke and Mark?
(March 12, 2014 at 11:22 am)ronedee Wrote: There are just too many truths, and ironies to throw my Bible in the fiction section of my library! Here is my over-arching point: There are details that are different. Details like whether Jesus was crucified in the third hour (Mark 15:25) or the sixth hour (John 19:14-15) that don't add anything to the interpretation of the story, as some apologists will say. They are just contradictions. When there are this many factual contradictions (see Esquilax's link), at what point does the human-ness of this work call the whole thing into question?
LOL! You just don't get it, do you?
I was where you were very (emphasis added alert!) EARLY in my spiritual evolution...
Jesus won't be holding a bible on Judgment Day!
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:47 am
(March 12, 2014 at 11:32 am)ronedee Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:26 am)Deidre32 Wrote: Do you believe the Qur'an is the inspired word of God, ronedee?
Muslims believe so. Who is "right?"
Debating a Christian is like this:
Reality: 2+2=4
Christian "reality:" I believe it equals 5, don't know why, I just do!
Ugh.
Deidre! I don't know? Really!
All I know is that I have a relationship with God, through Jesus! And everything works for me! I'm happy and peaceful. And so is my family, and friends in Jesus.
The people who you complain about are the minority. Who are in some cases no better than the people that they condem.
But...there is a growing number in the church, that are evolving as "true" spiritual beings! Its pretty amazing actually! I've never seen anything like it. These people are transcending the bullshit...for lack of a better term!
Its changing Deidre!
I'm not in a place to judge you or anyone, and I once shared your zeal. I appreciate you not being condescending nor judging. That means a lot to me.
:-)
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RE: Totally NOT a debate about the veracity of the gospels
March 12, 2014 at 11:49 am
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2014 at 11:51 am by ronedee.)
(March 12, 2014 at 11:46 am)LostLocke Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:34 am)ronedee Wrote: Which river is that? The Religious River? Or... The Spiritual River?
If its the Religious one? You're still there!
Its CALLED: EmPhAsiS AdDeD OK, so the first part is the no true Scotsman, right?
Emphasis yes. But often times people who capitalize Truth, think it has more meaning than just truth.
Not saying that's you, but when talking about Jesus, Truth doesn't mean any more than truth.
We Hope, there is ONE TRUTH! Just think of it as eye candy!
(March 12, 2014 at 11:47 am)Deidre32 Wrote: (March 12, 2014 at 11:32 am)ronedee Wrote: Deidre! I don't know? Really!
All I know is that I have a relationship with God, through Jesus! And everything works for me! I'm happy and peaceful. And so is my family, and friends in Jesus.
The people who you complain about are the minority. Who are in some cases no better than the people that they condem.
But...there is a growing number in the church, that are evolving as "true" spiritual beings! Its pretty amazing actually! I've never seen anything like it. These people are transcending the bullshit...for lack of a better term!
Its changing Deidre!
I'm not in a place to judge you or anyone, and I once shared your zeal. I appreciate you not being condescending nor judging. That means a lot to me.
:-)
No problem Dee! Great talking to you! I need to go to work! By4now! Ron
Quis ut Deus?
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