Say what you want, you depraved atheists - this guy is doing a stellar job demonstrating that he's not an asshole.

And you guys need to understand that men, not the religion carried out those atrocities on those poor children. Yes, all of us Christians condemn any act and any cover ups. But do you really believe Religion itself is at the root if this problem and the secular society is clean. You profess intelligence and reasoning which would surely recognize this. I will sincerely apologies if I could get one of you to admit this is a broader issue than religious.

(April 21, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Sid Wrote: Yes, that is exactly the premise. Lose any hope in getting an apology too. But that's right atheists don't believe in hope, or do you ? I will not apologize for intentionally sparking a debate. But I'll take full responsibility for doing exactly what I came here to do. Which is reveal your colors and exploit your illusions that Man is at the center of the world.

In what reality does hurling cheap insults constitute sparking a debate?

The only true colors you have shown are your own, and please, continue. With religious people like you, who needs anti-theists?

(April 21, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Sid Wrote: But I'll take full responsibility for doing exactly what I came here to do. Which is reveal your colors and exploit your illusions that Man is at the center of the world.

(April 21, 2014 at 8:44 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: From your belief system, from what you believe your morality comes from.

And yet, you divert it into a political non-sequitor, because you're apparently not even aware of what the definition of confession is.

Quote:Confession definition. In some churches, notably the Roman Catholic Church, a sacrament in which repentant sinners individually or as a group privately confess their sins in front of a priest and receive absolution from the guilt of their sins.

Sorry, I got carried away and edited that political reference out.

(April 21, 2014 at 8:51 pm)Sid Wrote: And you guys need to understand that men, not the religion carried out those atrocities on those poor children. Yes, all of us Christians condemn any act and any cover ups. But do you really believe Religion itself is at the root if this problem and the secular society is clean. You profess intelligence and reasoning which would surely recognize this. I will sincerely apologies if I could get one of you to admit this is a broader issue than religious.

Of course men committed the acts, there's no fucking god to step in and do it for them, but the point is that these men were hidden and abetted by a large religious apparatus that serves no good that couldn't come from secular sources, actually does cause harm by helping criminals, and cultivates a mentality where personal responsibility can be absolved by magic beings that speak to you internally.

Religion sure as hell isn't helping, in that scenario. Or any scenario, really. And for a guy who said "two wrongs don't make a right," in an attempt to absolve the church a few pages back, you really do seem attached to this "well, secular societies do it too!" line of reasoning.

(April 21, 2014 at 8:55 pm)Sid Wrote:

(April 21, 2014 at 8:44 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: From your belief system, from what you believe your morality comes from.

And yet, you divert it into a political non-sequitor, because you're apparently not even aware of what the definition of confession is.

Sorry, I got carried away and edited that political reference out.

Oh, as a Traditional Latin Rite Catholic I know confession all too well. Confession and penance returns you to a state of Grace but The Lord's sovereignty governs the after life in which your soul must be cleansed through fire, aka purgatory. Not to make light of this but we teach our children this simple analogy, a child will knock over a glass of milk and be sorry for that, and tell his//her parent it was his/her fault. The parent forgives them for the act but the child will still be made to clean the spill. The parent reserves the right to have them clean it up or the do it themselves.

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(April 21, 2014 at 8:56 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 21, 2014 at 8:51 pm)Sid Wrote: And you guys need to understand that men, not the religion carried out those atrocities on those poor children. Yes, all of us Christians condemn any act and any cover ups. But do you really believe Religion itself is at the root if this problem and the secular society is clean. You profess intelligence and reasoning which would surely recognize this. I will sincerely apologies if I could get one of you to admit this is a broader issue than religious.

Of course men committed the acts, there's no fucking god to step in and do it for them, but the point is that these men were hidden and abetted by a large religious apparatus that serves no good that couldn't come from secular sources, actually does cause harm by helping criminals, and cultivates a mentality where personal responsibility can be absolved by magic beings that speak to you internally.

Religion sure as hell isn't helping, in that scenario. Or any scenario, really. And for a guy who said "two wrongs don't make a right," in an attempt to absolve the church a few pages back, you really do seem attached to this "well, secular societies do it too!" line of reasoning.

Wow this is really a sickness in here, another misrepresented comment and nothing was stated about absolution. Stop word searching and stay on topic. If you read ALL this string you will see two themes, 1) me bringing out your ugliness to save a soul and 2) Man, not religion is at fault.

(April 21, 2014 at 8:55 pm)Sid Wrote:

(April 21, 2014 at 8:44 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: From your belief system, from what you believe your morality comes from.

And yet, you divert it into a political non-sequitor, because you're apparently not even aware of what the definition of confession is.

Sorry, I got carried away and edited that political reference out.

Thank you, sir. Because atheist or secular, I think we can agree there are evils inexcusable by any measure of apologetics, or appeals to one's creator. As unable as I am personally, to define my beliefs or the reasoning behind them that I would, in any possible world, put to death in the most awful way imaginable, the man who would permanently warp and injure my wife, and my childhood friends, in the way I know for a fact they have, as immoral. As deserving of eternal torment, as your religious belief edits out, as reserved for those of us who deserve eternal torment for our disbelief in an an eternal creator who would allow this to happen. I cannot express to you my anger toward them, those people who have inflicted the unimaginable horror of child rape, over and over against my friends, and the woman I love.

Hell is not enough to pay for those transgressions. Torture for eternity is not enough to make up for what they've done to innocent people. And yet your church says any transgression is forgivable. How is my morality inferior to yours?

How can I exist, so angry that I would defy heaven and hell as a heathen, overcome with righteous anger for those who would try to sweep my anger under the rug, and what is OK by it? Your beliefs are offensive. You are offensive. Your religion is offensive to me.

(April 21, 2014 at 9:06 pm)Sid Wrote: Wow this is really a sickness in here, another misrepresented comment and nothing was stated about absolution. Stop word searching and stay on topic. If you read ALL this string you will see two themes, 1) me bringing out your ugliness to save a soul and 2) Man, not religion is at fault.

Wow, you really are a dickhead, another transparent dodge and focusing on a single word- used as a word and not in specific reference to something you'd previously said- rather than actually answering. Stop tapdancing and fucking engage.

I do see two themes: 1, your complete inability to take responsibility for your actions, and 2, your despicable dishonesty being on full display.

No that's not true at all on what we believe about paying for transgressions. We are bound by our own human intellect on the level of sorrow or pain we can conceive. It is inconceivable what God will inflict upon us for all eternity. Most assuredly, it will be eternal suffering of the greatest proportions!