(April 30, 2014 at 11:13 am)Riketto Wrote:

(April 29, 2014 at 3:02 pm)bennyboy Wrote: No, it doesn't.

Philosophy means taking positions where there aren't necessarily clearly right positions. It doesn't mean making up a bunch of imaginary bullshit. That's "woo," not philosophy.

Philosophy means "love of wisdom" not "love of pulling random ideas out of your ass," although you are not the only one who can't tell the difference.

I got a little little easy question for you Bboy.
It should not be any difficult for you to answer
considering your high degree of intellect.
How do you get wisdom?
Thanks for your help so i can understand
how the system works.

You get wisdom by learning to discard foolish ideas which are unsupported by logic or observation, and by constantly using logic to challenge the ideas you hold to represent truth. You do not seem to do this, and your thread is not about doing this, so your thread is in the wrong section.

I also sometimes enjoy talking about meditation and spiritual things. But if I wanted to talk about them, I wouldn't make a thread in the philosophy section.

(April 30, 2014 at 5:06 pm)bennyboy Wrote: You get wisdom by learning to discard foolish ideas which are unsupported by logic or observation, and by constantly using logic to challenge the ideas you hold to represent truth.

Ummm, you are talking about truth within the physical arena or dimension i guess.
The problem is that today truth is tomorrow non truth as the today reality is different from yesterday or tomorrow reality so we are dealing with
temporary truth not permanent truth.
Can we really say that today truth is the real truth?
Of course not dear Bboy so if this truth is temporary also the level of wisdom will be temporary and with something temporary you can not really go very far.
If instead you are talking about knowledge away from a finite arena
or dimension in which exist an unlimited knowledge then you are doing a little bit of progress but i doubt that you mean this dimension.
There is something very important that you badly miss and this is the fact that human desires are unlimited not limited so real wisdom
can only be located in a dimension away from limitation like this finite arena or universal dimension.
You still got a long way to go before you can understand
what real wisdom is but as grandma said...........IS NEVER TOO LATE.

Quote:You do not seem to do this, and your thread is not about doing this, so your thread is in the wrong section.
I also sometimes enjoy talking about meditation and spiritual things. But if I wanted to talk about them, I wouldn't make a thread in the philosophy section.

Philosophy can be one of the entrance to the real world of knowledge
although the best way is direct access through intuitive knowledge.
My policy is that sometime i like go with the waves.
I can start talking about something and then go where the waves take
me rather then keep a straight course like a ship.
It is more relaxing.
The only time i keep a straight course is when i practice meditation.

http://youtu.be/IFM34jnUWoA

(April 29, 2014 at 11:40 am)Confused Ape Wrote: Nobody is entirely sure how much maths went into constructing the pyramids but maths was definitely required later on. So was engineering. They didn't have computers to help them either.

In the past intellectually skilled people were in the minority while these days there are so many that they get lost in the crowd.
In the past these few were worshiped like Gods while these days nobody would care about them.
In my previous posts i was talking about kids that would go mad if they would be put in a different age.
This in order to demonstrate that as the intellectual consciousness change also the nervous system change
requiring therefore a different type of treatment to deal with diseases
referring to the effectiveness or not of acupuncture.

Quote:There is evidence that the immune system and nervous system are linked but I've come across nothing to say that anything's changed over the past few thousand years.

Sometime you don't have to rely on something said by other people.
When your intuition tell you that this or that make a lot of sense you can
have faith in your intuition.
If then in the future somebody will come up with something more logic then you can follow that logic.

Quote:It is? How do you know that acupuncture was more effective 2-3 thousand years ago? Can you provide a link to a reputable medical source explaining it?

The fact that never work on me is not real evidence as it could work on other people although most of the people that i know and try acupuncture
said the same thing.
The main reason why i tell you that it is not much effective is that
today nervous system is very different from the nervous system of few thousand years ago therefore what was effective in the past it is not effective anymore.

Acupuncture began 1600-1400 BCE. There is no known major evolutionary change to the nervous system like you're talking about within the last 40,000 years. Smaller features like lactose tolerance have evolved over periods of about 20,000 years. Saying there have been significant changes in the human nervous system in 3400 years is patently ridiculous, let alone changes from "a few thousand years ago."

Then again, wild unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to support them are why most of your posts are easier to read with the Benny Hill theme playing.

http://youtu.be/MK6TXMsvgQg

(May 1, 2014 at 10:43 am)Riketto Wrote: In my previous posts i was talking about kids that would go mad if they would be put in a different age.
This in order to demonstrate that as the intellectual consciousness change also the nervous system change

It's likely that most people would go mad if they were suddenly transported to a different age no matter what their level of education was. This hypothetical situation doesn't prove that the human nervous system has changed over the course of time, though.

(May 1, 2014 at 10:43 am)Riketto Wrote: Sometime you don't have to rely on something said by other people.
When your intuition tell you that this or that make a lot of sense you can
have faith in your intuition.
If then in the future somebody will come up with something more logic then you can follow that logic.

I have no faith in what your intuition is telling you because scientists have come up with something more logical already.

Iceman Frozen for Millennia Had Lyme Disease, Clogged Arteries & Sardinian Relatives

Quote:Ötzi the Tyrolean iceman died in middle age some 5,300 years ago, most likely after sustaining a head injury and taking an arrow to the shoulder.

Researchers have investigated various aspects of the remarkably preserved individual’s life and death over the last two decades, from his final meal to his probable profession to whether he underwent a primitive form of acupuncture.

This body has been thoroughly studied and the results showed all his health problems. What the studies didn't show, however, was that his nervous system was different to that of modern humans.

(May 1, 2014 at 10:43 am)Riketto Wrote: The fact that never work on me is not real evidence as it could work on other people although most of the people that i know and try acupuncture
said the same thing.

Acupunture Effectiveness

Studies have indicated that it might be effective for some kinds of pain but results are inconclusive. Acupuncture is new in the West but the Chinese have been using it for a very long time and it's still a part of traditional Chinese medicine. There is no indication that Chinese people have a different nervous system to Western people, however, which suggests that acupuncture has the same effects as it's always done.

Its the same old thing from Ricky: I'm right because I think I'm right.

(April 29, 2014 at 9:37 am)Riketto Wrote: 1) You haven't taken in consideration one important factor.
What Buddha was saying ages ago is not necessary what
it is written in today books.
It is the same with the bible and every other book
written and rewritten countless of times with the addition
of so called truth (usually invented dogmas) or the taking away of some real truth.
2) It is quite possible that Buddha refrained from talking about God or in some cases could even let people know that there is no God.
I would have done the same if i would have to deal with certain situation.
Suppose i live in a situation in which people mind is overpower with materialistic attitudes.
What is the point in talking about something that at this stage can not
penetrate in people mind.
It is much better to start with something very very simple that people can understand.
Just imagine if i go to a party in which people smoke, drink or are affected
by drugs and i start telling them that what they do is wrong.
The result will be that i may well get bashed or if i am lucky i may only be kicked out.
It is like talking to a brick wall so it is much better to change tactic and i am sure this is what Buddha did.
The tactic is that you help someone when that one is ready to be helped.

Thats true, its very unlikely to represent the words of the buddha. But if Buddists/Hindus have always practised meditation as you describe, surely then they must be able to see the truth too. Your views are just not consistent. If meditation can enable people to see the truth, why do Buddhists claim there is no god? why do many of them still eat meat? why do they believe their is no soul?

The answer is that meditation does not enable as to have special insight into any fundamental truth. Indeed going by your standard of debate it seems to make people become morons. For example in the actual debate on the opening topic of this thread, you admitted that humans in the past ate meat when they were starving. THIS makes us omnivores you idiot. A cow would never eat meat even if it was starving. Evolutionarily, if you admit that eating meat might a good thing to do if we are starving then there is an evolutionary pressure for us to be able to eat meat. Which is why we have a short colon.

We are omnivores, meditation does not make you enlightened, and you are just very deluded.

(April 29, 2014 at 9:37 am)Riketto Wrote: The nervous system in the humans change all the time according to
place and time in which we live.
You take a kid of today used to deal with computers and other technological things and you put him back in time 3-4 hundred years
were they use to do manual jobs that require little intellect.
He would go mad.
Also a kid from that age that would come in this age and deal with today technology would go mad as his nervous system could not deal with today way of life.
As the nervous system change also the system to deal with diseases change so what was good in the past is no longer good these days.
If we go back 2-3 thousand years when the acupuncture was invented then the difference is even more dramatic.

hock:
This is painful. Its like you have overheard some people talking about how our nervous system changes according to different environmental stimuli during our development, and then decided to use this to justify whatever beliefs you want. You say our nervous system was different, and these differences made acupuncture drastically effective. What are these changes? What genes were up/down regulated? What were the neurotransmitters involved in mediating these effects? Why did these changes make acupuncture drastically effective? You have no idea because you are speaking absolute crap.

(May 1, 2014 at 5:47 pm)James2014 Wrote: ....... if Buddists/Hindus have always practised meditation as you describe, surely then they must be able to see the truth too. Your views are just not consistent. If meditation can enable people to see the truth, why do Buddhists claim there is no god? why do many of them still eat meat? why do they believe their is no soul?

Because Buddhism like Hinduism like Christianity like Islam are religions.
Spirituality is long gone in these people so without spirituality it is very hard to perceive God.
The fact that some of these people practice meditation means absolutely nothing.
They use old mantras which are worthless.
What is written about Buddha is a load of rubbish.
How Buddha could not believe in God when the meaning of the mantra is...
......i am that entity......i am God?
The meaning of the mantra has always been the same but the sound
is not.

Quote:The answer is that meditation does not enable as to have special insight into any fundamental truth.

Wrong.
By practicing your consciousness get deeper and deeper as you come to
understand your unlimited potential.
The iceberg of consciousness slowly emerge and you become aware that you are much more then John or Peter.
The limited dimension get unlimited and that is what God is all about.

Quote:Indeed going by your standard of debate it seems to make people become morons. For example in the actual debate on the opening topic of this thread, you admitted that humans in the past ate meat when they were starving. THIS makes us omnivores you idiot.

Not at all you imbecile.
If i would get stuck on a island with no other food to eat other then
seafood then i would eat seafood as a temporary thing.
That does not mean that i am omnivore.
To be omnivore you got to have a digestive system that is able to cope
with saturated fats, cholesterol and toxins.
We human haven't got that system so it means that after sometime that
i eat a non-veg. diet my system will not be able to cope with that anymore.

Quote:A cow would never eat meat even if it was starving. Evolutionarily, if you admit that eating meat might a good thing to do if we are starving then there is an evolutionary pressure for us to be able to eat meat. Which is why we have a short colon.

A cow is not able to run after an animal to kill it and to cut his skin in order to get to the flesh that is why she would starve.
If she could do all this then she may well eat meat rather then starve.

Quote:We are omnivores, meditation does not make you enlightened, and you are just very deluded.

More garbage James.

Quote:This is painful. Its like you have overheard some people talking about how our nervous system changes according to different environmental stimuli during our development, and then decided to use this to justify whatever beliefs you want. You say our nervous system was different, and these differences made acupuncture drastically effective. What are these changes? What genes were up/down regulated? What were the neurotransmitters involved in mediating these effects? Why did these changes make acupuncture drastically effective? You have no idea because you are speaking absolute crap.

Ok. let us make an experiment to see if you could cope with the life of
our ancestors.
I send you back 3000 years in time.
You find yourself among people who can cope with that primitive life.
No roads, no cars, no fridge, no electricity with people who believe that
the earth is flat and is the center of the universe.
Their attitude is very simple.
If you are a man they can bash you up if you are a woman they will get you and rape you.
If you say that the earth is round and not flat they will hit you or burn you alive.
Their intellect is very very simple and can only work out simple things.
You automatically understand that your intellect is much more advance
and therefore it is obvious that also your nervous system is also more
sophisticate and a different nervous system require a different type of
treatment.


It appear that even outside China some form of stimulation was practiced
thousand of years ago.



Speculation encircles the tattoo marks found on the Ice Man who died around 3300 BCE, whose body was discovered after an Alpine glacier melted.[15] These tattoos suggested that a form of stimulatory treatment resembling acupuncture developed independent of China.[15]

(May 2, 2014 at 11:01 am)Riketto Wrote: I send you back 3000 years in time.
You find yourself among people who can cope with that primitive life.
No roads, no cars, no fridge, no electricity
with people who believe that
the earth is flat and is the center of the universe.
Their attitude is very simple.
Their intellect is very very simple and can only work out simple things.

Cars, fridges and ways of harnessing electricity didn't just pop into existence by themselves. People who grew up without these things in their lives went on to invent them.

Humans, as a species, didn't have lesser intellects 3,000 years ago. They'd discovered metal working, weaving, calendars, astronomy, mathematics, how to construct buildings with bricks or stone etc. etc. etc. Most people didn't have the opportunity to gain an education but that doesn't mean they were inferior to modern humans.

(May 2, 2014 at 11:01 am)Riketto Wrote: You automatically understand that your intellect is much more advance

More advanced than the humans who invented all the things that our Western civilisation is still based on? I like to believe that I can think intelligently but I've never thought up anything new which has made a contribution to the sum of human knowledge.

(May 2, 2014 at 11:01 am)Riketto Wrote: and therefore it is obvious that also your nervous system is also more
sophisticate and a different nervous system require a different type of
treatment.

How are you defining the Nervous System?

Quote:The nervous system is the part of an animal's body that coordinates its voluntary and involuntary actions and transmits signals between different parts of its body.

It's a physical thing. There's nothing mystical about it.

You didn't supply a link to the information about Ötzi's tattoos but I found similar information in another article.

Ötzi Tattoos

Quote:It has been speculated that these tattoos may have been related to pain relief treatments similar to acupressure or acupuncture. If so, this is at least 2000 years before their previously known earliest use in China (c. 1000 BCE).[25]

Speculation isn't proof but there was no evidence that Ötzi's nervous system was any different to 21st century humans. This means that any form of treatment similar to acupuncture would have worked the same way then as it would now.