(May 4, 2014 at 11:45 am)aces Wrote: I was raised christian. I now believe though that God doesn't really exist, never did.

Where I live this belief is really not tolerated or accepted. In fact I have a church at BOTH ends of my road.

While I'm 95% certain there is no God 5% of me is still like what if there is and I die and go to Hell? But then if a God loved you so much why would he allow you to burn in hell.

Last night a friend looked at me like I had 2 heads because I told her I don't believe I will see God in Heaven because he doesn't exist. Her response was there is proof he walked the earth.

At that point her boyfriend stopped the conversation and changed the subject.

How do you prove or disprove that God existed?


What do you believe happens after you die?

I think all the great things about Heaven are lies. They are made up to help soothe the loss of a loved one that way you are comforted by the fact that they aren't gone forever.

I lost someone very close to me a few years ago in a very tragic way. That is what started my thoughts turning on this process.

First, if there was a god how could he allow such misery? God never gives you more than you can handle, that's bs.

Second, I got to thinking there is no way anyone will see her again in heaven I start really thinking that through and I just think that it is not possible period. That's like make believe, fantasy crap.

I also had a Hospice worker tell me, when religious patients die they go peacefully. Non religuous patients fight it and die scared. She said it doesn't matter what religion they are, any religion they all go peacefully and comforted by their beliefs.

Which makes me think, so every religion has different beliefs but they will all get you to Heaven because they are all correct? That can't be possible either.

I know I'm rambling and my thoughts are unorganized, sorry.

Any advice for me?

First up there's no proof either way for the existence on non existence of any deities..

Theists will provide all sorts of things that they will claim as evidence for their god but it usually comes down to arguments from ignorance, personal experiences, or claims. They will use the bible as their proff, ignoring that the bible is only evidence that people wrote the bible.

Whe you di you're gone. That's it. Or at least that's what I accept and have seen no evidence to the contrary.

I recommend you look up the Thinking Atheist podcasts on YouTube, a number of them deal with loss superbly.

As for the individual who works at the hospice, I have sat with and watched a number of patients die. My experience is the exact opposite: that believers tend to pass fearfully as they still fear eternal punishment, while the non believers are likely to pass more peacefully.

Of course, the above is a generalisation, as people are all individuals and I've seen several cases where the opposite is true.

(May 4, 2014 at 11:57 am)Minimalist Wrote: For xtianity - "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman.

For religion in general - "God is Not Great" by Chris Hitchings.

Good suggestions. However, if you don't wish to invest that much time and effort into the project, you might check out "The Emperor's New Clothes" and file under Everything I Needed to Know About Theist Claims I Learned in Kindergarten.

(May 4, 2014 at 11:45 am)aces Wrote: I was raised christian. I now believe though that God doesn't really exist, never did.

Where I live this belief is really not tolerated or accepted. In fact I have a church at BOTH ends of my road.

While I'm 95% certain there is no God 5% of me is still like what if there is and I die and go to Hell? But then if a God loved you so much why would he allow you to burn in hell.

Pascal's Wager.
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...%27s_wager

Quote:Last night a friend looked at me like I had 2 heads because I told her I don't believe I will see God in Heaven because he doesn't exist. Her response was there is proof he walked the earth.

What "proof" did she offer? Or did her "evidence" stop at the bolded statement above?

What she did was offer you an unfounded assertion that (probably) wasn't backed up by any actual evidence, she merely made a statement that was intended to shut you up. I assume she didn't have anything else to say; not being there when the conversation took place I could be wrong in assuming that she didn't have more to follow this statement up with, but it would be incredible if she offered anything other than "Jesus, duh!" which, itself, is another unfounded assertion since it's far from proven that Jesus was real, let alone that he really performed miracles.

Quote:At that point her boyfriend stopped the conversation and changed the subject.

Sounds like he was uncomfortable.

Quote:How do you prove or disprove that God existed?

You don't. You evaluate the available evidence and try to dispel yourself of any confirmation biases you might be bringing to the table which, as much as it sucks, means listening to both sides of the argument and evaluating each based on their evidence.

Spoiler:

Quote:What do you believe happens after you die?

You get cremated or buried and your family (hopefully) mourns your death but remembers the good times you spent with them.

Quote:First, if there was a god how could he allow such misery?God never gives you more than you can handle, that's bs.

1) Problem of Evil - http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...em_of_evil
2) Yes, it's BS.

Quote:Which makes me think, so every religion has different beliefs but they will all get you to Heaven because they are all correct? That can't be possible either.

Exactly.

Quote:Any advice for me?

About what?

How to deal with Christians? Learn about the actual development of the Christian religion, not the crap a preacher will tell you, they lie (or stretch the truth).

How to be an atheist? Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep asking questions and do your best not to fall into the same confirmation bias loop that they do and just assume that they're wrong and that gods aren't real. Evaluate the evidence as critically and in as unbiased a manner as you can.

(May 4, 2014 at 11:53 am)aces Wrote: Can you suggest any good books for me to read?

Not The Impossible Faith by Richard Carrier is my new favorite book about historical Christianity. It's a response to The Impossible Faith by James Holding where he (Carrier) goes point by point through the claims Holding makes and describes how fallacious Holding's claims are, how he quote-mines his sources and misrepresents his sources' arguments and points, and how he flat out lies about matters of historical account, while presenting well-researched historical arguments against Holding's thesis.

Also, Bart Ehrman's books Lost Christianities and Forged are good.

Welcome, aces. For a scholarly approach, I recommend Atheism: the Case Against God by Smith. It's available for free on PDF out there on the internets. It's the book I read when my religion prof told us he was't going to cover atheism in Intro to Religion because it's an irrational position. I found out it isn't.

Welcome aboard!

As for books, "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins is a pretty quick read and quite enjoyable, I think.

If you're interested in female biology and evolution I recommend "Woman: An Intimate Geography" by Natalie Angier.

(May 5, 2014 at 11:39 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Welcome, aces. For a scholarly approach, I recommend Atheism: the Case Against God by Smith. It's available for free on PDF out there on the internets. It's the book I read when my religion prof told us he was't going to cover atheism in Intro to Religion because it's an irrational position. I found out it isn't.

Yes, Smith's book is good. I also recommend Atheism: A Philosophical Justification by Michael Martin.

(May 5, 2014 at 11:39 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Welcome, aces. For a scholarly approach, I recommend Atheism: the Case Against God by Smith. It's available for free on PDF out there on the internets. It's the book I read when my religion prof told us he was't going to cover atheism in Intro to Religion because it's an irrational position. I found out it isn't.

This was the first book on atheism I ever read - kind of went over my head as a 16 year old, but I thought it was interesting enough to continue researching the concept of atheism. I just reread it recently and enjoyed it.

And lol about your professor.