(May 20, 2014 at 8:17 pm)professor Wrote: Kusa, perhaps you have not noticed.
The leaders of the Muslims do not blow themselves.
They get patsies to do it.
Quite different than the beginning of Christianity.

I had no idea early Christians can bend that far?

(May 20, 2014 at 8:27 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(May 20, 2014 at 8:17 pm)professor Wrote: Quite different than the beginning of Christianity.

Not likely

Why?

GC

(May 20, 2014 at 9:50 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(May 20, 2014 at 8:27 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Not likely

Why?

GC

You don't even know your own history, do you?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_martyrs

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C...an_martyrs

Martyrdom was actively sought after by Christians. Just like the Islamics of today.

Read Candida Moss' The Myth of Persecution and find out exactly what a con job all that xtian martyrdom shit was.

(May 20, 2014 at 10:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Read Candida Moss' The Myth of Persecution and find out exactly what a con job all that xtian martyrdom shit was.

Yep.

Quote:Moss's thesis is that the traditional idea of the "Age of Martyrdom", when Christians suffered persecution from the Roman authorities and lived in fear of being thrown to the lions, is largely fictional. There was never sustained, targeted persecution of Christians by Imperial Roman authorities. Official persecution of Christians by order of the Roman Emperor lasted for at most twelve years of the first three hundred of the Church's history. Most of the stories of individual martyrs are pure invention, and even the oldest and most historically accurate stories of martyrs and their sufferings have been altered and re-written by later editors, so that it is impossible to know for sure what any of the martyrs actually thought, did or said.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Persecution

It was my understanding someone burning up alive inside a bronze bull, would because of the acoustics, invariably make animal noises regardless of what they were saying (screaming) so we wouldn't know if any of them confessed to hoaxing or not.

---

And then there is the saint who, upon having his head severed with an ax, was able to pick it up and kiss it on the lips. I don't think he made a confession either.

(May 20, 2014 at 8:17 pm)professor Wrote: Kusa, perhaps you have not noticed.
The leaders of the Muslims do not blow themselves.
They get patsies to do it.
Quite different than the beginning of Christianity.

Really depends on the quality of the patsies and the prospective leaders, doesn't it?

All you've really said here is that, if it is indeed a con job, then the Islamic leaders were smarter than the ones from your church.

(May 20, 2014 at 6:55 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Ah, the old "would they die for a lie?" ploy. The basic upshot of this is that the whole story is much too silly not to be true. It's like the magic mirror on the wall in Snow White - such a childishly silly notion, yet without it the story falls apart. So, the argument runs, if these early 'martyrs' had anything better, less ridiculous, to stake their lives on, surely they'd have done that?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

Plus as Chuck says, the whole story of those brave, misunderstood martyrs has zero historical evidence anyway.

Well the Romans did send a lot of so-called Christians to their deaths in the arenas.

The whole thing is like the Puritans burning witches to death. If witches were real and had supernatural powers could you burn them to death at the stake?

Quote:Well the Romans did send a lot of so-called Christians to their deaths in the arenas.

No. That's the point. It's horseshit.

Anyone who asks "why would anyone die for Christianity if it wasn't real?" Can be turned aside with the reply "So then Islam is the true faith? Because why would someone suicide bomb if Allah wasn't real?"