(May 21, 2014 at 10:04 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: I just had my dinner, i can't laugh at the moment.

What did you have?

Wild rice with a vegetarian steak.
For drink i had sunflower milk shake (sunflower seed, lecithin, water, blended together)
Yummy.

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(May 21, 2014 at 10:06 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(May 20, 2014 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: THIS GUY IS A NUT CASE.

Pretty much sums up the reaction of every poster on here when you post something, Rick.

Do you realise nobody here has the foggiest clue what you're saying, or indeed what drugs you're on, right?

That is quite normal.
Since when those who went against the main stream
were understood during their present life?

(May 21, 2014 at 10:14 am)Riketto Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:04 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: What did you have?

Wild rice with a vegetarian steak.
For drink i had sunflower milk shake (sunflower seed, lecithin, water, blended together)
Yummy.

---

(May 21, 2014 at 10:06 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Pretty much sums up the reaction of every poster on here when you post something, Rick.

Do you realise nobody here has the foggiest clue what you're saying, or indeed what drugs you're on, right?

That is quite normal.
Since when those who went against the main stream
were understood during their present life?

How fucking stupid would you have to be to use reincarnation as an argument on an atheist website?

And you're over there chowing down on a "Vegetarian steak" in the middle of about how humans are naturally herbivores, and people who salivate at meat are idiots?

Have you been tested for high bullshit disorder lately?

(May 21, 2014 at 10:14 am)Riketto Wrote: That is quite normal.
Since when those who went against the main stream
were understood during their present life?

I have no doubt that in your mind you're destined to be one of the greatest people that ever lived.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:05 am)Riketto Wrote:

(May 20, 2014 at 11:27 am)Confused Ape Wrote: You can believe in reincarnation if you want to but why is it necessary to believe that humans aren't omnivores in order to be concerned with the ethics of factory farming etc.?

I don't follow you.
When i say that?

From your opening post -

(February 26, 2014 at 9:33 am)Riketto Wrote: Man was never build up to be omnivore as we can see from the different body (teeth, jaw, length of stomach and different acids to digest food) so by going against nature it is clear that damages will occur.

I looked at the Anando Margo diet and saw that it permits dairy products which humans didn't start using until around 10,000 years ago. This adaptation still hasn't got to all humans yet because 10,000 years isn't very long.

Early humans were butchers 3.4 million years ago

Quote:Our ancestors were carving meat some 800,000 years earlier than previously thought. Marks on fossilised animal bones found in Ethiopia indicate that early-human butchers were using stone tools as early as 3.4 million years ago.

I just find it odd that someone could teach that humans didn't adapt to meat eating after millions of years even though we've been adapting to dairy products for the past 10,000 years.

I wonder what would have happened to the Giant Panda if it had believed that carnivores couldn't adapt to living on a 99% bamboo diet.

(February 26, 2014 at 9:33 am)Riketto Wrote: We got all sort of people with all sort of ideas.
We both may agree on veg. issues but may not agree on
the existence or not of God.
Other people may agree on the existence or not of God but not
on veg. issues.
Nothing really new under the stars.

I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons, not because I'm hoping it will influence which culture I'm born into in my next life. Would you be a vegetarian if you didn't believe in reincarnation and hadn't been taught that humans aren't designed to eat meat?

(May 21, 2014 at 11:00 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:05 am)Riketto Wrote: I don't follow you.
When i say that?

From your opening post -

Whether you keep animals in the cages or you let them free to graze
they still cause problem so in my Op i was referring to animals kept for human consumption in general not just farm animals.
In one island (i forgot the name) they introduce rabbits in the hope that
when they need some meat they would just shoot one and eat.
Unfortunately after some time these rabbits breed out of control and soon all the vegetation was gone together with all the rabbit.
Not having the predators that they had in Europe it was obvious that
they would breed out of control.
Here in Australia something similar happen.
We got introduced animals that turn fertile land into more and more desert.
Camels, horses, donkeys, rabbits, hares, pigs, goats, plus some fish like the carp.
All these introduces animals are a pest for the environment so to me
farm or not farm animals make little difference.

Quote:I looked at the Anando Margo diet and saw that it permits dairy products which humans didn't start using until around 10,000 years ago. This adaptation still hasn't go to all humans yet because 10,000 years isn't very long.

You state that it is 10,000 years and you say that hasn't got to all humans yet because 10,000 years isn't very long.
Where is the evidence of all this?

Quote:Early humans were butchers 3.4 million years ago

Quote:Our ancestors were carving meat some 800,000 years earlier than previously thought. Marks on fossilised animal bones found in Ethiopia indicate that early-human butchers were using stone tools as early as 3.4 million years ago.

I just find it odd that someone could teach that humans didn't adapt to meat eating after millions of years even though we've been adapting to dairy products for the past 10,000 years.
I wonder what would have happened to the Giant Panda if it had believed that carnivores couldn't adapt to living on a 99% bamboo diet.

I think you are running too fast with your guessing.
You say early humans.......
How would you know whether these early humans kept
eating meat for long time or for until now or instead as they
got more consciousness stop eating meat all together or eat meat only
when nothing else was available?
You keep on guessing again and again but as all other guys here
you are not telling me why man can not deal with saturated fat, cholesterol and toxins like omnivore animals?
This is the real test to see whether we are omnivore or not.
All the rest are just guessing.

Quote:I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons, not because I'm hoping it will influence which culture I'm born into in my next life. Would you be a vegetarian if you didn't believe in reincarnation and hadn't been taught that humans aren't designed to eat meat?

Yes indeed.
Since very young age i hate eating meat.
At that time i had no idea what reincarnation was but my consciousness
was telling me to keep away from that dung.
Obviously that consciousness was coming from the previous life even if i was unaware of previous lives.

(May 22, 2014 at 10:59 am)Riketto Wrote: Here in Australia something similar happen.
We got introduced animals that turn fertile land into more and more desert.
Camels, horses, donkeys, rabbits, hares, pigs, goats, plus some fish like the carp.
All these introduces animals are a pest for the environment so to me
farm or not farm animals make little difference.

I agree with you about disasters caused by introducing species in places like Australia. This isn't the same thing at all as saying that humans aren't designed to eat meat.

(May 22, 2014 at 10:59 am)Riketto Wrote: You state that it is 10,000 years and you say that hasn't got to all humans yet because 10,000 years isn't very long.
Where is the evidence of all this?

I posted an article about it but you obviously didn't bother to read it.

Lactase Persistence - Evolutionary History

Here's another one you can ignore from the European Journal Of Human Genetics.

Evolutionary Genetics: Genetics of lactase persistence – fresh lessons in the history of milk drinking -

Quote:Lactase nonpersistence is the ancestral state, and lactase persistence only became advantageous after the invention of agriculture, when milk from domesticated animals became available for adults to drink. As expected, lactase persistence is strongly correlated with the dairying history of the population. This genetic ability to digest milk has been regarded as a classic example of gene-culture co-evolution, where the culture of dairying creates a strong selective advantage to those who can drink milk as adults, for only they can nutritionally benefit from the milk. A recent paper confirmed this link by analysing the diversity in bovine milk protein genes and showing that the highest gene diversity (and by implication the largest historical population size) is in cows from areas of the world where dairy farming is practised and the people are lactose tolerant.2 In humans, epidemiological analysis has shown that the cultural development of dairying preceded selection for lactase persistence.3 Since dairying is thought to have originated around 10 000 years ago, the selective pressure has been only for the past 400 generations. Despite this short time, there is suggestive evidence of recent positive selection: lactase persistence is associated with one haplotype, which is very common only in northern Europeans, and is distant from the ancestral haplotype.4, 5 Discovery of the possible molecular basis of this polymorphism – a single nucleotide change 14 kb away from the gene, has allowed further analysis of genetic variation associated with lactase persistence/nonpersistence.6, 7, 8

(May 22, 2014 at 10:59 am)Riketto Wrote: I think you are running too fast with your guessing.
You say early humans.......
How would you know whether these early humans kept
eating meat for long time or for until now or instead as they
got more consciousness stop eating meat all together or eat meat only
when nothing else was available?

Genomic signatures of diet-related shifts during human origins

Quote: Regardless of the predominate meat procurement mode, the increased availability of protein and fat in the diet of H. erectus via oil-rich seeds, USOs and meat [17] would provide consistently available, high-quality, calorie-rich fuels for such energetically expensive adaptations as a large brain.

So, if our pre-human ancestors hadn't changed their diet to include meat, humans wouldn't have big brains. Without our big brains we wouldn't be arguing about diet on the internet. We'd just be sitting in some jungle going "Oook" and eating plants and insects. This probably would have been a lot better for the planet, of course.

Here's another one for you - Why Meat Eating Humans Outlive Apes

Quote:The “meat-adaptive gene”, known as ApoE3, is unique to humans and is a variant of the cholesterol transporting gene, apolipoprotein E, which regulates inflammation and many aspects of aging in the brain and arteries.

The same evolutionary genetic advantages that have helped increase human lifespans by regulating the effects of meat-rich diets also make us uniquely susceptible to diseases of aging such as cancer, heart disease, and dementia.

Which is bad news for us humans living with polluted soil and air because there's mounting evidence that these can cause cancer and heart disease.

Quote:Comparing the life spans of humans with other primates, Caleb Finch, a USC professor, explains that slight differences in DNA sequencing in humans have enabled us to better respond to infection and inflammation, the leading cause of mortality in wild chimpanzees and in early human populations with limited access to modern medicine.

Finch hypothesizes that the expression of ApoE4 in humans could be the result of the “antagonistic pleiotropy theory” of aging, in which genes selected to fight diseases in early life have adverse affects in later life.

In spite of their genetic similarity to humans, chimpanzees and great apes have maximum lifespans that rarely exceed 50 years. Even in high-mortality modern hunter-forager populations, human life expectancy at birth is still twice that of wild chimpanzees.

So, besides big brains we got a better chance of survival in early life as well as a longer lifespan. The downside of this adaptation is that we're more susceptible to diseases of ageing. Even so, if our remote ancestors hadn't switched to eating meat I wouldn't be replying to you because I'd have died of old age 15 years ago. (I'm 65 so have already outlived the average chimpanzee.)

(May 22, 2014 at 10:59 am)Riketto Wrote: You keep on guessing again and again but as all other guys here
you are not telling me why man can not deal with saturated fat, cholesterol and toxins like omnivore animals?

I posted links to articles about Inuit diet and the difference between meat from wild animals and domesticated animals fed on unnatural diets. As you obviously didn't bother to read them you can ignore this article as well.

"Evolving To Eat Mush" - : How Meat Changed Our Bodies

Quote:Our fondness for a juicy steak triggered a number of adaptations over countless generations. For instance, our jaws have gotten smaller, and we have an improved ability to process cholesterol and fat.

When humans switched to meat-eating, they triggered a genetic change that enabled better processing of fats, said Stanford, who has worked extensively with gerontologist Caleb Finch of USC.

"We have an obsession today with fat and cholesterol because we can go to the market and stuff ourselves with it," Stanford said. "But as a species we are relatively immune to the harmful effects of fat and cholesterol. Compared to the great apes, we can handle a diet that's high in fat and cholesterol, and the great apes cannot.

"Even though we have all these problems in terms of heart disease as we get older, if you give a gorilla a diet that a meat-loving man might eat in Western society, that gorilla will die when it's in its twenties; a normal life span might be 50. They just can't handle that kind of diet."

Another dietary change occurred when cooking was invented. We're the only animal which cooks food.

Do we need to eat meat in the modern world? No, as long as we have the luxury of being able buy fruit and vegetables all year round. This would have been impossible for hunter gathers living in colder climates thousands of years ago. It's also a luxury being able to buy manufactured Vitamin B12 if people want to give up dairy products and eggs as well as meat.

(May 22, 2014 at 10:59 am)Riketto Wrote: Since very young age i hate eating meat.
At that time i had no idea what reincarnation was but my consciousness
was telling me to keep away from that dung.
Obviously that consciousness was coming from the previous life even if i was unaware of previous lives.

I loathe peanuts, walnuts, carrots and cucumber. I wonder what that's telling me about my previous life?

Ape, you put far too much effort into your posts to enrico. He will never listen, its just not worth it.

(May 22, 2014 at 2:30 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Ape, you put far too much effort into your posts to enrico. He will never listen, its just not worth it.

But I learned about the ApoE3 gene while researching my reply. I've also got a lot of posts I can use as references if I need the information for another topic.

Atheists put a lot of effort into posts to Christians and other believers on this forum. They never listen either.

I was kidding earlier, but I'm starting to wonder if Enrico isn't already institutionalized, someone should get on that.