(June 5, 2014 at 2:20 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 1:25 pm)Godschild Wrote: I know people here are going to run this down for various reasons, but none will help the people who need treatment.
http://teenchallengeusa.com/docs/a_summa...tudies.pdf

Is it just this one organization? Or are there other Christian ones just as successful?

That's the largest covers most or all of the U.S., I know of one in North Carolina for women that's every bit as successful. I've been to these organizations and meet with them so I could recommend them to people who need the help, what they do for those handicapped with these types of addictions. They will even take people who can not afford to pay, things will always be worked out so those in need can receive the help thy need.

GC

Apparently, the method of trading physical opiate addiction for intellectual opiate addiction has some measure of success.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:22 am)Godschild Wrote: Why would you give up on something that could change your life, are you afraid that people will call you religious, stupid, delusional. If it changes your life does that make you or them stupid and delusional.

GC

Lots of things can change your life. You forgot to specify whether it would be a good or bad change.

Every one of the responses you've made on this thread are ridiculous, but I think this one deals a special sort of shit-bag-dom:

(June 4, 2014 at 4:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not have a mental problem, unlike many here say they do, could be I'm reading the right book already.

1) You are an unmitigated retard to think that mental issues get solved by a book.

2) You are also an unmitigated asshole to imply that if someone is an atheist and not interested in your stupid book, that they're purposely holding themselves back from finding solutions to chemical imbalances and other things they generally can't help without medical intervention.

Well I say read the damn book if she'll throw you some pussy.

Christians - They'll fix your mental illness with another mental illness.

No thanks.

(June 5, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Bad Writer Wrote: The idea that Christians do something better than secularists (for example, bake casseroles, sing better, organize more charities) in no way tells us that their god claims are true. This is a red herring, and it's one stinker of a fish.

Correct, but it does mean that there are things secular organizations could improve on.

Regardless, I'm still skeptical about what Godschild says based on the fact that they're claims based on self-reports mainly. And correlation is not equal to causation anyway.

(June 6, 2014 at 2:07 am)Irrational Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Bad Writer Wrote: The idea that Christians do something better than secularists (for example, bake casseroles, sing better, organize more charities) in no way tells us that their god claims are true. This is a red herring, and it's one stinker of a fish.

Correct, but it does mean that there are things secular organizations could improve on.

Regardless, I'm still skeptical about what Godschild says based on the fact that they're claims based on self-reports mainly. And correlation is not equal to causation anyway.

I've personally seen the results of these two organizations, but most here believe me to be a liar so they want accept this. No one has ever shown I've ever lied to them though, funny how one can be called a liar without proof. The site I posted was by Teen Challenge but, the study was an independent one and if you go and look at the sites that criticize them and you will see that they show success rates much higher than the secular organizations. The biggest thing wrong with the secular organizations is money, they deal with insurance companies and with most if you do not have the money for the program you do not get in. The biggest grip I have with them is they have 30 to 90 day stays, not enough time, just not enough, addictions generally are years in the making and it takes time to battle time. Don't just doubt what I say, if you're interested in tearing down this organization do research, if you are interested in it's success do research.

GC

(June 6, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 2:07 am)Irrational Wrote: Correct, but it does mean that there are things secular organizations could improve on.

Regardless, I'm still skeptical about what Godschild says based on the fact that they're claims based on self-reports mainly. And correlation is not equal to causation anyway.

I've personally seen the results of these two organizations, but most here believe me to be a liar so they want accept this. No one has ever shown I've ever lied to them though, funny how one can be called a liar without proof. The site I posted was by Teen Challenge but, the study was an independent one and if you go and look at the sites that criticize them and you will see that they show success rates much higher than the secular organizations. The biggest thing wrong with the secular organizations is money, they deal with insurance companies and with most if you do not have the money for the program you do not get in. The biggest grip I have with them is they have 30 to 90 day stays, not enough time, just not enough, addictions generally are years in the making and it takes time to battle time. Don't just doubt what I say, if you're interested in tearing down this organization do research, if you are interested in it's success do research.

GC

The file you linked to shows that the studies, in general, were mainly based on self-report.

The first study made use of self-report and urinalysis tests. However, it seems urinalysis tests could be passed with relative ease even if one does drugs.

The rest are purely based on self-report.

In addition, I have not seen a study from you showing that secular organizations pale in comparison to Christian ones with regards to treating drug addiction.

Furthermore, I'm skeptical that any of the studies in the file are independent.

If my skepticism offends you, my bad. But properly conducted experiments are what make me relatively confident of any cause and effect claim. And especially if they are published in legit and relevant journals.

(June 6, 2014 at 1:30 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(June 6, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Godschild Wrote:

---

I've personally seen the results of these two organizations, but most here believe me to be a liar so they want accept this. No one has ever shown I've ever lied to them though, funny how one can be called a liar without proof. The site I posted was by Teen Challenge but, the study was an independent one and if you go and look at the sites that criticize them and you will see that they show success rates much higher than the secular organizations. The biggest thing wrong with the secular organizations is money, they deal with insurance companies and with most if you do not have the money for the program you do not get in. The biggest grip I have with them is they have 30 to 90 day stays, not enough time, just not enough, addictions generally are years in the making and it takes time to battle time. Don't just doubt what I say, if you're interested in tearing down this organization do research, if you are interested in it's success do research.

GC

---

The file you linked to shows that the studies, in general, were mainly based on self-report.

The first study made use of self-report and urinalysis tests. However, it seems urinalysis tests could be passed with relative ease even if one does drugs.

Agreed the report came from Teen Challenge, however the study they reported was an independent study. It was done to test the validity of Teen Challenges claim.

Quote:The rest are purely based on self-report.

In addition, I have not seen a study from you showing that secular organizations pale in comparison to Christian ones with regards to treating drug addiction.

Furthermore, I'm skeptical that any of the studies in the file are independent.

If my skepticism offends you, my bad. But properly conducted experiments are what make me relatively confident of any cause and effect claim. And especially if they are published in legit and relevant journals.

If you have skepticism why don't you go to the sites that are critical of Teen Challenge and see what percentages they report, you know I can't for the life of me believe that people would reject such a good program that has helped so many because it's Christian based. To let loved ones suffer the fate of addictions because a program is Christian based is beyond my understanding. Believe me I've seen this several times with people I've tried to get help for, it makes me wonder if these family members really know what love is, they just stay in a state of denial till their children are in jail or the morgue and it's a real shame. I get nothing out of it except knowing someone may kick an addiction, I even offer to take them to the Teen Challenge program, and have done so. By the way if you want to know the success rate of secular programs go back and read the link I posted, that percentage came from an outside party, not Teen Challenge.

GC

(June 6, 2014 at 5:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: Agreed the report came from Teen Challenge, however the study they reported was an independent study. It was done to test the validity of Teen Challenges claim.

Yet no reference was provided to show that this was a set of independent studies.

I'm not interested in emotional rhetoric from you, by the way. I want sources instead backing up all the important claim made in the file.

Quote:By the way if you want to know the success rate of secular programs go back and read the link I posted, that percentage came from an outside party, not Teen Challenge.

Yes, but with no source to back it up.