Well, who would want to buy our version of democracy? Talk about a clunker!

(June 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: Yes, Iraq is turning into an Islamic paradise, with Afghanistan to follow.

But hey, at least Saddam is gone! And those Halliburton stock options? Don't even ask...

Saddam was a monster of our own making. We had a moral obligation in my opinion to rid the Iraqi people of him even at the expense of shedding our own blood. Now that we have done that, and given the Iraqi's the tools and means to a free and prosperous future, our debt to them has been paid.

The Iraqi's need to sort this one out on their own.

(June 11, 2014 at 3:36 pm)Chas Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 9:10 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All the more reason for isolationism. God-damn, I'm tired of us exporting "democracy".

Especially as we seem to be running out of it here.

Don't you know it!

In Iraq, "democracy" exists as a mostly technical exercise to elect a central government has little actual authority, while most of the real power is held by bands of armed religious fundamentalists.

As a project of exporting the conservative brand of democracy, the Iraq war was a total success.

(June 11, 2014 at 3:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Well, who would want to buy our version of democracy? Talk about a clunker!

I lived in Iran as a boy, from 1974 to 1978, and I wrote a book about my experiences there, which included witnessing the revolution which overthrew the Shah.

In that book, there's a germane passage:

Quote:It wasn't until much later, after we returned to America, that the thought crossed my mind that my dad's behavior that night may encapsulate the reasons why Westernization in general and Americans in particular were so terribly resented by Iranians. To his son, of course, my dad could do no wrong; even though he tried to tell me otherwise, in his own fashion, I still at the time regarded him as pretty damned close to infallible.

But looking back on it later, I could see that the appalling arrogance of his actions were really synecdoche for the way our country treats most of the rest of the world, particularly the under-developed parts of it. And that was certainly the case in Iran, where we forced an autocratic monarch upon a people, for our own ends, with little thought and less concern for the will of the people there. In this case, our thirst for cheaper oil and our geopolitical goals regarding Russia combined to damn the Iranians to the fear of secret police and, eventually, to an equally dreaded and despised religious government.

I'm still of the opinion that if we as a country truly desire peace for that troubled part of the world -- or any other -- then we should export democratic principles and respect for human rights along with missile batteries and the jet fighters that they shoot down. As trite and simplistic as that may read, I firmly believe that a major reason for the terrorism directed against us is the fact that our high words and ideals rarely are matched by our deeds. We talk a great deal about freedom, equality, and the rule of law, and we point to the ideals ensconced in our Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights; but when these principles collide with our economic or geopolitical goals, they are invariably shunted aside in favor of a convenient alliance with a tyrant, who ends up in the scrap-heap of history along with our long-term goals. This is borne out with dismaying frequency in our history.

I was to see this for myself in 1978.

This seems so typical.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2014061...75940.html

Quote:WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is preparing to send new aid to Iraq to help slow a violent insurgent march that is threatening to take over the nation's north, officials said Wednesday.

They did so well with the stuff they threw down before running away!

(June 11, 2014 at 11:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: This seems so typical.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2014061...75940.html

Quote:WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is preparing to send new aid to Iraq to help slow a violent insurgent march that is threatening to take over the nation's north, officials said Wednesday.

They did so well with the stuff they threw down before running away!

If we don't give Iraqi army any aid, how would the jihadists in Iraq and Syria equip themselves with the best weapons American national debt can buy?

Sign at a bazaar in Mosul.

For the Islamic world, most of fighting forces are pussies.

The terrorist are just as bad. It is really pussies fight pussies. The tell young adults to blow themselves up, but are will to push their own children in the line of fire to protect themselves.

None of them are truly warriors willing to protect their own people and country.

They all yearn to conquer, and they are willing to do terrible things in the name of religion.

---

Most of the equipment is old Soviet and USA Surplus.

Not any more. Now they apparently have heaps of brand new made-in-the-USA stuff.... probably still has the shrink wrap on it!


However, the attackers seem to have better morale than the government forces. One wonders if being an Iraqi soldier is little more than a job? Who is going to risk his life for a country that most of them don't believe in?