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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 12:30 pm
So your problem is that it doesn't exclude the possibility of being come from Adam and Eve. Well as you know this is science : it's objective and it is bound by logical criterias. Will not just deny an evidence just because it might bother someone.
And by the way as explained, we didn't appear suddenly as it is stated in the bible. so actually it does exclude the thing of Adam and Eve.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 12:47 pm
(June 24, 2014 at 11:02 am)LogicOrDie Wrote: I just wonder how the belivers come to be so blind to any reason. In my case it was ignorance. Raised by a strict fundamentalist, my only information about evolution was via the JW organization, and their stance is that it doesn't happen. Or at least, they use the old micro/macro split to accommodate evolution while dismissing most of the theory. They also use the "it's just a theory" argument, which works quite well on people who don't understand what the word means in the context of scientific research.
Combined with the mental block produced by being raised to believe that there is a god and it is the god of the Bible, it creates a scenario where any doubt can be attributed to the devil's attempts to draw people away from god and from his salvation. Fear and ignorance complement each other nicely under those circumstances. A very effective pair.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm
So obvious that it took until the 19th century for someone to discover it. My point is to tread with some caution regarding the obvious claim.
Evolution is needed to describe speciation, not the inheritance of traits within reproductively isolated populations. Animal domestication and husbandry has been around for thousands of years indicating that we've known about this for some time. It took Darwin to discover natural selection and the resulting speciation.
What is much more fair to say is that evolution is perfectly reasonable and demonstrably true given the confluence of evidence along with its explanatory and predictive power. Denying it with what we know today is an extreme position.
I think it is easy sometimes to take the knowledge we have today for granted and undervalue the momentous intellectual achievements of the past.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 1:09 pm
Darwin's idea is definitely right up there with the discovery of fire.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Quote:I just wonder how the belivers come to be so blind to any reason.
Many are just stupid.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 2:48 pm
(June 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm)Cato Wrote: So obvious that it took until the 19th century for someone to discover it. My point is to tread with some caution regarding the obvious claim.
Evolution is needed to describe speciation, not the inheritance of traits within reproductively isolated populations. Animal domestication and husbandry has been around for thousands of years indicating that we've known about this for some time. It took Darwin to discover natural selection and the resulting speciation.
What is much more fair to say is that evolution is perfectly reasonable and demonstrably true given the confluence of evidence along with its explanatory and predictive power. Denying it with what we know today is an extreme position.
I think it is easy sometimes to take the knowledge we have today for granted and undervalue the momentous intellectual achievements of the past.
My point was not absolute but rather took in consideration our temporal context which is our modern era. For anyone who has access to new discoveries and knowledge in science could easily agree that evolution seems plausible, if not true...
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 3:37 pm
I don't think evolution is obvious at all. Heck, heliocentrism isn't obvious. But they are true.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 3:41 pm
It is, as long as you are cultivated enough. I am not saying a middle-age person could come to the conclusion of evolution, but in the light of what we have today in informations, it is easily admitted
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 3:54 pm
(June 24, 2014 at 1:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Darwin's idea is definitely right up there with the discovery of fire.
Sorry, no. Fire made everything up to now, including discovery of evolution, possible. The reverse could in no conceivable sense be possibly true.
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RE: Evolution is obvious
June 24, 2014 at 3:54 pm
(June 24, 2014 at 11:26 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: I don't think I have ever come across an evolution denier who actually understands the theory. The problem is with education I think.
I'd say that's correct, but perhaps in a different way than you think. The problem isn't so much lack of education as it is mis-education: when all your trusted sources are peddling misinformation, you have a tendency to become misinformed by design. It isn't so much that the evolution denier has not read up on the subject, it's that they've read a lot of things that are wrong.
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