(May 5, 2014 at 4:02 am)Godslayer Wrote: My mother went to school as an Autism specialist, and has stuck by her guns that vaccines cause Autism. My brother has Autism and she completely blames the medical system for my brothers Autism, despite evidence to the contrary. She sites studies from the 90s that claimed Autism was caused by Vaccines (basically the Jim Carey, Jenny McCarthy crowd) and she refuses to believe that she is fallible on the topic since she studied it for years and she refuses to believe that the information she has learned is fallible. She refuses to believe that Science can progress, and I think this is a problem within her head since she is a religious person, dogmatically believing whatever she wants to believe to give her comfort. I have tried everything, given her evidence that the people who made those studies that claimed Autism was caused by Vaccines have since retracted their statements, but to no avail. She has called me ignorant on the topic even though I am looking at it more objectively than she is, since she will not bend with new evidence. Just wondering, what should I say to her? Maybe this topic is too intense for her and I should leave it alone. But at the same time I am hugely against Anti-Vaccination people for obvious reasons. Any advice would be awesome, otherwise I'm sure I'm going to here the same thing I've heard from my friends.

If your mother look like Jenny McCarthy, then that could be forgiven.

(May 5, 2014 at 7:52 am)Godslayer Wrote:

(May 5, 2014 at 6:20 am)bennyboy Wrote: If your mother wants the truth, google is available for all. If she already knows the truth without looking at facts, then she's guilty of dogma-- and cannot be reasoned with.

The problem is she thinks she has the truth and cannot be proven wrong. I suppose there is nothing I can say to that, you're right. But for some reason this always gets brought up since we directly experience Autism all the time.

A common mindset among fanatics of all stripes.

Judge tells anti-vaccine crowd to go fuck itself.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/24/ny...-concerns/

Quote:A federal judge in New York City has upheld the state’s policy of barring unvaccinated children from public school classrooms if another student is ill with a vaccine-preventable illness.

According to The New York Times, Judge William F. Kuntz II of Federal District Court in Brooklyn ruled against a group of parents who sued the city for turning their unvaccinated children away from public school during outbreaks of contagious diseases like measles.

The families claimed that their right to practice their religion was being violated, but Kurtz drew upon 109-year-old Supreme Court jurisprudence that grants the state broad powers to intervene in public health matters.

Kurtz wrote that the Supreme Court ruling “strongly suggested that religious objectors are not constitutionally exempt from vaccinations.”

Judge Kurtz found a SC ruling from 1905 which dismissed religious objections to vaccination. Good work, your honor.

I don't want to go too far afield here, but clearly, there were autistics prior to 1911. Were they lumped together with everyone else not perceived to be 'normal' or

(and here we go)

was there something done (deliberate or accidental) in those days that was effective (to a degree) in approaching/treating the condition ? Would it be possible to rule out, for instance, dirty water, cholera, rotten/rotting food etc. ??

Or is there something in autism that back then resulted in infant mortality, which when that started to decline,let's say late 19th century, there became enough surviving autistics for them to become known ??

(trying to think out of the box, something being around this site seems to foster)

Hi vorlon.

Yes, I think autism has always been with humanity. The numbers have grown now to the point where it is noticeable in the population.

Remember that quiet kid at school? The one with the funny mannerisms and slightly obsessive behaviour that no one would play with? Odds are a sure bet that he/ she was autistic or "on the spectrum". Treatment was via coping mechanisms taught to these kids so they grew up with eccentricities that the majority of the population didn't pay any attention to. Even today, these 'coping mechanisms' are a main tool in helping those on the autistic spectrum.

If I remember correctly.... Mozart, Einstein, Newton, and many other famous identities were "autistic". As I said, it is just that now the global population is at such a high level that the numbers of these people have become significant and a societal issue to be addressed. Have you ever heard of Temple Grandin? Currently a vociferous advocate for those on the spectrum. She apparently has finished her doctorate and is currently a professor at Colorado uni.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
She is also autistic

(June 24, 2014 at 9:46 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Hi vorlon.

Yes, I think autism has always been with humanity. The numbers have grown now to the point where it is noticeable in the population.

Remember that quiet kid at school? The one with the funny mannerisms and slightly obsessive behaviour that no one would play with? Odds are a sure bet that he/ she was autistic or "on the spectrum". Treatment was via coping mechanisms taught to these kids so they grew up with eccentricities that the majority of the population didn't pay any attention to. Even today, these 'coping mechanisms' are a main tool in helping those on the autistic spectrum.

If I remember correctly.... Mozart, Einstein, Newton, and many other famous identities were "autistic". As I said, it is just that now the global population is at such a high level that the numbers of these people have become significant and a societal issue to be addressed. Have you ever heard of Temple Grandin? Currently a vociferous advocate for those on the spectrum. She apparently has finished her doctorate and is currently a professor at Colorado uni.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
She is also autistic

And the "rise" in the number of identified autistics has nothing to do with vaccines, it's due to the fact that many ailments have been reclassified as autism since the 1980s.

Too right there Beccs. We are getting better at diagnosis as well as catching early signals that our little ones may need some extra help. Not a fan of "popping a pill" solutions though.

(June 24, 2014 at 10:01 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Too right there Beccs. We are getting better at diagnosis as well as catching early signals that our little ones may need some extra help. Not a fan of "popping a pill" solutions though.

Nor am I.

I don't even take much in the way of neurofen myself. I've been called a martyr by colleagues because of my refusal to take too much medication.

Don't get me started on the overuse of anti-biotics.

(May 5, 2014 at 4:02 am)Godslayer Wrote: My mother went to school as an Autism specialist, and has stuck by her guns that vaccines cause Autism. My brother has Autism and she completely blames the medical system for my brothers Autism, despite evidence to the contrary.

I wish I had a magic bullet for this one. The autism/vaccine theory is really a conspiracy theory, and people with conspiracy theories don't let go of them easily, if ever. Like believers in God, conspiracy theorists accept minimal and even contradictory evidence for the theory and negate all other evidence as fabricated.

Interestingly, people who believe in one conspiracy theory are much more likely to believe in other conspiracy theories. And people who are highly religious in a fundamentalist sort of way are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories.

My sympathies, but don't ruin your relationship with your Mom. You won't win this one.

(June 24, 2014 at 10:16 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(June 24, 2014 at 10:01 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Too right there Beccs. We are getting better at diagnosis as well as catching early signals that our little ones may need some extra help. Not a fan of "popping a pill" solutions though.

Nor am I.

I don't even take much in the way of neurofen myself. I've been called a martyr by colleagues because of my refusal to take too much medication.

Don't get me started on the overuse of anti-biotics.

lol
Same here. We don't like taking paracetamol and if we do it is because it is necessary, same with any medication.