It's extremely fitting that you use the :confused-fail: emoticon at the end of most of your posts. In tapatalk, it just reads "Confused-Fail."

(June 21, 2014 at 9:46 am)Riketto Wrote: It works in this way..........when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

It does seem like that. I like the term, synchronicity - the meaningful coincidence. Coincidences happen all the time but we don't notice most of them. On rare occasions, however, an event just happens to coincide with something going on in the unconscious and we do notice it and find meaning in it.

(June 21, 2014 at 9:46 am)Riketto Wrote: Anyway after reading them more feeling about yoga push me to go to India. It really was an adventure to get there in the 70's by land.
Step by step Sarkar directed me to him.
It was a spiritual attraction that i could not refuse like a magnet that attract the iron.

A very interesting story. You had to go on a quest to find what you needed and you recognised what it was when you found it.

(June 21, 2014 at 9:46 am)Riketto Wrote: In yoga the pineal gland is like the seed.

There has been some research into the role of the pineal gland and religious experience but it's early days yet. There's some suggestion that it produces an enzyme which enables the body to manufacture DMT.

Dimethyltryptamine

Quote:N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT or N,N-DMT) is a psychedelic compound of the tryptamine family. Since DMT resembles the basic structure of neurotransmitters, when ingested, DMT is able to cross the human blood-brain-barrier, allowing it to act as a powerful hallucinogenic drug that dramatically affects human consciousness.[3] Depending on the dose and method of administration, its subjective effects can range from short-lived, milder psychedelic states to powerful immersive experiences; these are often described as a total loss of connection to external reality and an experience of encountering indescribable spiritual/alien beings and realms.[4]

Its presence is widespread throughout the plant kingdom.[6][7] DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, where it functions as a neurotransmitter and putatively as a neuromodulator. DMT is also produced in humans, however its production and purpose in the brain is yet to be proven or understood.[8] It is originally derived from the essential amino acid tryptophan and ultimately produced by the enzyme INMT during normal metabolism.[9] The significance of its widespread natural presence remains undetermined. DMT is structurally analogous to the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-HT) and the hormone melatonin, and furthermore functionally analogous to other psychedelic tryptamines, such as 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenin, psilocin, and psilocybin.

The way our brains are constructed shows that left hemisphere consciousness isn't the only way of experiencing the world. Here's a very interesting extract from a lecture by V.S. Ramachandran, the neuroscientist in God On The Brain. (There's a video of it on the page.)

Split brain with one half atheist and one half theist.

Quote:Here’s a fascinating snippet from neurologist VS Ramachandran, talking about a split-brain patient. The patient’s right brain believed in God, but the more rational left brain was atheist.

Ramachandran points to the obvious theological problem of what, in the Christian view, happens to such a person after they die; does the right brain go to heaven and the left to hell?

(June 21, 2014 at 9:46 am)Riketto Wrote: Materialism come when you adore the matter not when you use the matter for surviving.
There is a big difference between the two.
I use the matter every day but i am not a materialist.

I see what you're getting at. Maybe I should have said that looking at religious experience from the point of view of biology etc could prove to be very useful for the future. Spiritual experiences without religious theology would mean humans could stop fighting over which religion is true.

(June 21, 2014 at 9:46 am)Riketto Wrote: These days 99% of the so called religious people haven't got a clue about the way to progress spiritually speaking.

My guess is that only a small percentage of the population has the kind of brain required to be a mystic and just as well, too. After all, if everyone devoted their lives to seeking the experience interpreted as union with God we wouldn't have computers, indoor plumbing and other useful things. There's also the question of what it means to progress spiritually. People can learn and grow through ordinary, everyday experience so I don't think anyone is obliged to be on a spiritual path in order to be a decent human being. After all, someone with a 'religious experience' brain won't be a decent human being if they lack empathy.

(June 22, 2014 at 6:31 am)Confused Ape Wrote: [quote='Riketto' pid='693388' dateline='1403358399']
It works in this way..........when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

Quote:It does seem like that. I like the term, synchronicity - the meaningful coincidence. Coincidences happen all the time but we don't notice most of them. On rare occasions, however, an event just happens to coincide with something going on in the unconscious and we do notice it and find meaning in it.

If coincidences happen all the times i would have already won lotto many times over.

Quote:A very interesting story. You had to go on a quest to find what you needed and you recognised what it was when you found it.

A speechless experience.

Quote:There has been some research into the role of the pineal gland and religious experience but it's early days yet. There's some suggestion that it produces an enzyme which enables the body to manufacture DMT.

Not early days for Shiva that explained the role of the pineal gland 7000 ago.

Quote:Ramachandran points to the obvious theological problem of what, in the Christian view, happens to such a person after they die; does the right brain go to heaven and the left to hell?

The guy has done a lot of interesting work.
Quite good in order to solve a lot of physical-mental problems although some of his work is mixed up with pure speculation like in this case.
Yoga work on a different plate.
Yoga try to establish a relationship with the macrocosm so the unit Atman or microcosm become macrocosm.
But you can also put in a different way.
Suppose two hungry wayfarers see a mango tree full of ripe mangoes.
Ramachandran will start studying the tree while the little Ricky will start picking up those beautiful mangoes straight away in order to put an end to
the pangs of the stomach.

Quote:Maybe I should have said that looking at religious experience from the point of view of biology etc could prove to be very useful for the future. Spiritual experiences without religious theology would mean humans could stop fighting over which religion is true.

Spirituality is the cream of all the creams.
While religions divide spirituality unite.
Religions look outside but that doesn't make any sense because God is inside.
The seed is within.
Nothing is outside.

Quote:My guess is that only a small percentage of the population has the kind of brain required to be a mystic and just as well, too.

Not true.
If man wouldn't have the possibility to be a mystic he wouldn't be a man.
Animals still don't have this chance that is why they are not man yet.
The problem lie elsewhere Ape.
It is only a question to put our own priority here rather than there but the
chances to be a mystic are there.
It is all about freedom.
Someone choose materialism or intellectual extravaganza while other choose a different path.

Quote:After all, if everyone devoted their lives to seeking the experience interpreted as union with God we wouldn't have computers, indoor plumbing and other useful things.

Not true Ape.
Most of those that are engaged in spirituality that i know are also working
in this material world in all field of life.
None that i know choose to go up in the Himalaya to lead a life of heremits.
This would go against Sarkar principles.

Quote:There's also the question of what it means to progress spiritually. People can learn and grow through ordinary, everyday experience so I don't think anyone is obliged to be on a spiritual path in order to be a decent human being. After all, someone with a 'religious experience' brain won't be a decent human being if they lack empathy.

You surely can be a decent person but there is a small big problem with that.
Everything in this universe move and change so we also change.
We can go up or down in our evolution.
Spirituality help you to go ahead so the chances to go back are very slim.
I have seen countless of materialists important people fall down from high stands.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: If coincidences happen all the times i would have already won lotto many times over.

The co-incidences happen for the people who win the lottery, though. Synchronicoty isn't that kind of co-incidence, however. It's like when something in the outside world mirrors something in the inside world. Sometimes the mirror can trigger a direction changing realisation about something. Other times the co-incidences can be meaningful in that they show how everything appears to be connected in right brain consciousness.

Everything is connected of course but humans have ignored that for too long. We aren't separate from nature or its masters who can do anything we like to the planet without repercussions.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Not early days for Shiva that explained the role of the pineal gland 7000 ago.

But it will be very useful if science can verify it. At the moment people can have all kinds of views about it such as "The pineal gland stuff is false because my religion doesn't teach it" or "The pineal gland stuff is just religious bullshit."

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: The guy has done a lot of interesting work.
Quite good in order to solve a lot of physical-mental problems although some of his work is mixed up with pure speculation like in this case.

What he was really showing in this example of a split brain is that our 'rational left brain' consciousness is just the tip of an iceberg. He was then illustrating how the reality concerning brains poses problems for some religious theology. Everyone has a right and left hemisphere so we are all two people in one body so to speak. What we consciously think isn't necessarily what we unconsciously think so would we get to the Christian heaven if we only believe in the Christian God unconsciously or do we have to be conscious of our belief for it to count?

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Yoga work on a different plate.
Yoga try to establish a relationship with the macrocosm so the unit Atman or microcosm become macrocosm.

It still has to be done through the brain, though.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: But you can also put in a different way.
Suppose two hungry wayfarers see a mango tree full of ripe mangoes.
Ramachandran will start studying the tree while the little Ricky will start picking up those beautiful mangoes straight away in order to put an end to
the pangs of the stomach.

There's a reason why Ramachandran said there might be a God antenna in the brain.

Reaching for the stars: Dr VS Ramachandran on the wonder that is our brain.

Quote:Q: The god question
You have said earlier that you are agnostic, but not atheistic. Does your research make you feel that if there is a god, at least he/she/it cannot be perfect?

A: This isn't a scientific question and I am no more qualified to answer it than you or anyone else.

As a human being, however, I tend to think that 'there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of' in our philosophy and God may indeed be such a thing.

That said, there is too much pain in the world to permit belief in a PERSONAL God - a benevolent deity or in intelligent design (One look at George Bush Jr and you know intelligent design can't be true).

I suppose the answer depends partially on what you mean by God. You can't enter the atheists' turf, accept their premises, and expect to 'prove' the existence of God. What could such a thing even mean?

On the other hand, I have no problem believing in the existence of an abstract god - the brahman of the Upanishads, who runs this whole mad magic show.

As I said in my Jawaharlal Nehru lecture (2009), he isn't probably involved in individual human concerns, yet may not be entirely indifferent to them either.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Not true.
If man wouldn't have the possibility to be a mystic he wouldn't be a man.

How are you defining mysticism? My own brain is tuned to myths and symbols etc when I use what I call 'New Age perception' but it's not the right brain consciousness that Jill Bolte Taylor experienced. I can also use Eckhart Tolle's technique to observe my thoughts floating by. On rare occasions I can become aware of just existing and being here without any thoughts about it although I can only manage it for a couple of seconds. I'm guessing this is what's meant by the observer self. It's an interesting experience from the point of view of cognition but I don't find it any kind of evidence for God.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Animals still don't have this chance that is why they are not man yet.

The way I see it, humans believing that we are God's special creation or Evolution's greatest product has led to a lot of the problems we have today.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Spirituality help you to go ahead so the chances to go back are very slim. I have seen countless of materialists important people fall down from high stands.

But what about people who do what they can for human rights, animal welfare and ecology. Doesn't a life devoted to service count for anything?

This thread is gonna be immortal .

(June 23, 2014 at 8:52 am)Marsellus Wallace Wrote: This thread is gonna be immortal .

I suppose Riketto and I could start a new topic to continue our discussion but why bother when we can use this one?

(June 23, 2014 at 8:04 am)Confused Ape Wrote: [quote='Riketto' pid='693988' dateline='1403442402']Not early days for Shiva that explained the role of the pineal gland 7000 ago.

Quote:But it will be very useful if science can verify it. At the moment people can have all kinds of views about it such as "The pineal gland stuff is false because my religion doesn't teach it" or "The pineal gland stuff is just religious bullshit."

If you expect the physical science to understand what is not physical you must have big expectations.
It would be something like calling a carpenter or an electrician when your sink need a plumber.

Quote:What he was really showing in this example of a split brain is that our 'rational left brain' consciousness is just the tip of an iceberg. He was then illustrating how the reality concerning brains poses problems for some religious theology. Everyone has a right and left hemisphere so we are all two people in one body so to speak. What we consciously think isn't necessarily what we unconsciously think so would we get to the Christian heaven if we only believe in the Christian God unconsciously or do we have to be conscious of our belief for it to count?

In yoga we don't have this kind of problems.
There is only one supreme consciousness to focus and this require the mind to come under control so it is possible to concentrate on the only reality.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Yoga work on a different plate.
Yoga try to establish a relationship with the macrocosm so the unit Atman or microcosm become macrocosm.

Quote:It still has to be done through the brain, though.

The brain is the fuel, the mind is the vehicle and the Atman or the I is the driver so i wouldn't give that much importance to the brain other than it play some role.

Quote:There's a reason why Ramachandran said there might be a God antenna in the brain.

Ramachandran is still searching.
One day he like everybody else will put an end to this search.
In the meantime is exactly like you.
Just searching.

Quote:How are you defining mysticism? My own brain is tuned to myths and symbols etc when I use what I call 'New Age perception' but it's not the right brain consciousness that Jill Bolte Taylor experienced. I can also use Eckhart Tolle's technique to observe my thoughts floating by. On rare occasions I can become aware of just existing and being here without any thoughts about it although I can only manage it for a couple of seconds. I'm guessing this is what's meant by the observer self. It's an interesting experience from the point of view of cognition but I don't find it any kind of evidence for God.

"The unending endeavour to bridge the gap between the finite and the infinite is mysticism."
Shrii Shrii Anandamurti

"The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is at the root of all true science. Someone to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, is my idea of God."
Albert Einstein

Quote:The way I see it, humans believing that we are God's special creation or Evolution's greatest product has led to a lot of the problems we have today.

Religions create problems all the times but even without religions people would cut each other throat anyway.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Spirituality help you to go ahead so the chances to go back are very slim. I have seen countless of materialists important people fall down from high stands.

Quote:But what about people who do what they can for human rights, animal welfare and ecology. Doesn't a life devoted to service count for anything?

I already point out in previous posts what Sarkar said about spiritual progress.
The best way to progress in this field is not even yoga.
Yoga come third but yoga is the most practical way.
First come the total commitment for the welfare of other so even someone who does not believe in God but serve other before serving him-herself will get at the very top very easily.
Then come those who see God in everything and everybody.
In this way you can't go wrong as you wouldn't build up any bad Karma.
But i think that the best of the best it is to practice these 3 rules together minus the non believe in God as the first way.

(June 24, 2014 at 4:15 am)Riketto Wrote: If you expect the physical science to understand what is not physical you must have big expectations.
It would be something like calling a carpenter or an electrician when your sink need a plumber.

Physical science can't explain what isn't physical but research into the role of the pineal gland is indicating some interesting things.

Human pineal physiology and functional significance of melatonin.

Quote:In lower vertebrates, the pineal gland is photosensitive, and is the site of a self-sustaining circadian clock. In mammals, including humans, the gland has lost direct photosensitivity, but responds to light via a multisynaptic pathway that includes a subset of retinal ganglion cells containing the newly discovered photopigment, melanopsin.

If it also produces an enzyme which enables the body to manufacture DMT it will explain why this 'third eye' is related to spiritual experiences and why nobody talks about opening up the toenails. People who want spirituality without religious dogma will be able to use techniques involving the pineal gland without being put off by instructions called 'How To Open Your Third Eye'.

(June 24, 2014 at 4:15 am)Riketto Wrote: In yoga we don't have this kind of problems.
There is only one supreme consciousness to focus and this require the mind to come under control so it is possible to concentrate on the only reality.

A lot of religions do have those problems, though, because they're bogged down in theology. Theology is just ideas that people have about God and science can show that many of those ideas are wrong because they're not related to reality. Or not related to how God created things to be where people who believe that God created everything are concerned.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: The brain is the fuel, the mind is the vehicle and the Atman or the I is the driver so i wouldn't give that much importance to the brain other than it play some role.

But studying the brain can still prove beneficial. Let's go back to little Ricky and his mangoes. What's happening in his brain when he eats the fruit which will satisfy his hunger? Once this has been established the travellers move on and come across Mary and Dave. Mary eats pears and Dave eats oranges and they're forever fighting over which is the 'right' fruit to eat. What's happening in their brains when they eat their chosen fruit? If it's the same as what happens in little Ricki's brain it shows that all the fruit is good to eat and which one is right depends on the individual.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: Ramachandran is still searching.
One day he like everybody else will put an end to this search.
In the meantime is exactly like you.
Just searching.

I have no idea if Ramachandran is searching for anything in his private life but, in his professional life, he's a scientist who specialises in brains. His work is helping people such as those who suffer from phantom limbs.

What hantom limbs and mirrors teach us about the brain

Quote:His next subject, Jimmy, felt that his phantom hand was always agonisingly clenched, with his phantom fingernails digging into his missing hand.

Ramachandran put a mirror between Jimmy's arms and asked him to move both his phantom and healthy limb simultaneously, while looking at the reflection of the healthy limb - effectively fooling Jimmy's brain into thinking his phantom was moving in a normal way.

Jimmy felt his clenched fist release almost immediately.

"I tell my medical colleagues that it is the first example in the history of medicine of successful amputation of a phantom limb."

He called the treatment Mirror Visual Feedback therapy or MVF. But it wasn't until much later that MVF was properly acknowledged by clinicians.

Imagine what life must have been like for Jimmy before Ramachandran discovered that therapy. The brain works in mysterious ways but learning how it operates doesn't disprove the existence of God. If everything is a manifestation of God it's telling us how God operates as a brain.

(June 22, 2014 at 9:06 am)Riketto Wrote: "The unending endeavour to bridge the gap between the finite and the infinite is mysticism."
Shrii Shrii Anandamurti

I suppose Jungian psychology could be classed as a kind of mystical path because he was one of the pioneers of Transpersonal Psychology.

Quote:Transpersonal psychology is a school of psychology that integrates the spiritual and transcendent aspects of the human experience with the framework of modern psychology. It is also possible to define it as a "spiritual psychology". The transpersonal has been defined as "experiences in which the sense of identity or self extends beyond (trans) the individual or personal to encompass wider aspects of humankind, life, psyche or cosmos".[1] It has also been defined as "development beyond conventional, personal or individual levels".[2]

(June 24, 2014 at 4:15 am)Riketto Wrote: Religions create problems all the times but even without religions people would cut each other throat anyway.

This is true. There's a dark side to human nature but if we don't recognise our own dark aspects we can project them onto others or fool ourselves into thinking we are justified in acting out our dark impulses.

Modern science is discovering that the little ego self really is an illusion. It's no longer possible to dismiss that as nothing more than religious bullshit.

Finally, I came across an interesting Neil deGrasse Tyson Quote.

Quote:We are part of this universe; we are in this universe, but perhaps more important than both of those facts, is that the universe is in us.

Does that sound familiar? The universe is in us is a scientific fact. Is there anything beyond the physical? Science cannot answer that but, if there is, God is manifesting as the universe within us.

(June 25, 2014 at 8:38 am)Confused Ape Wrote: Physical science can't explain what isn't physical but research into the role of the pineal gland is indicating some interesting things.

Physical science will discover more and more but sooner or later will find himself in a blind alley.
The spiritual side of the gland can only be discovered by practicing spirituality.
The effort to fill the gap between finite and infinite is a spiritual relationship and as all relationship you got to be interested in the other party.
Considering that physical science is only a theoretical study then the chances to get in a real relationship with the infinity are zero.

Quote:A lot of religions do have those problems, though, because they're bogged down in theology. Theology is just ideas that people have about God and science can show that many of those ideas are wrong because they're not related to reality. Or not related to how God created things to be where people who believe that God created everything are concerned.

You can't really reason with religious people as they lock themselves inside a corral of dogmas or false truth.
A waste of time and a waste of their lives considering that they are getting nowhere.

Quote:But studying the brain can still prove beneficial. Let's go back to little Ricky and his mangoes. What's happening in his brain when he eats the fruit which will satisfy his hunger? Once this has been established the travellers move on and come across Mary and Dave. Mary eats pears and Dave eats oranges and they're forever fighting over which is the 'right' fruit to eat. What's happening in their brains when they eat their chosen fruit? If it's the same as what happens in little Ricki's brain it shows that all the fruit is good to eat and which one is right depends on the individual.

I didn't said that studying the brain is not beneficial.
I only said that this kind of study will be confined to the physical-mental side of ourself.

Quote:I have no idea if Ramachandran is searching for anything in his private life but, in his professional life, he's a scientist who specialises in brains. His work is helping people such as those who suffer from phantom limbs.

Imagine what life must have been like for Jimmy before Ramachandran discovered that therapy. The brain works in mysterious ways but learning how it operates doesn't disprove the existence of God. If everything is a manifestation of God it's telling us how God operates as a brain.

When you study something you always look for a goal.
Physical science can not have a goal as the universe is finite.
That means that sooner or later anyone studying something will want to get out the finite limitations and penetrate the infinite arena.
Ramachandran like you like me and like all the guys in this forum we are no exception.
It is only a question of when.

Quote:I suppose Jungian psychology could be classed as a kind of mystical path because he was one of the pioneers of Transpersonal Psychology.

A lot of good theories but where is the practical way to progress?
Suppose you want to get the driving licence.
You study all the road rules but you never drive the car.
What's the point?

Quote:Finally, I came across an interesting Neil deGrasse Tyson Quote.

Quote:We are part of this universe; we are in this universe, but perhaps more important than both of those facts, is that the universe is in us.

Does that sound familiar? The universe is in us is a scientific fact. Is there anything beyond the physical? Science cannot answer that but, if there is, God is manifesting as the universe within us.

Well before we can understand this point we have to understand that the physical reality is an illusion.
That is not that simple as the brick that fall on the head hurt a lot.
Some fakirs can sleep on a nails bed without feeling any pain as other people who go in trance do.
In spirituality there are other ways to deal with this problem to an extent
by practicing the 2 lesson.
When you come to believe that you exist in God mind the physical reality no longer apply but everything come as slow or as fast as your spiritual progress goes.

(June 26, 2014 at 9:52 am)Riketto Wrote: When you come to believe that you exist in God mind the physical reality no longer apply but everything come as slow or as fast as your spiritual progress goes.

That shouldn't be difficult to demonstrate -at all.