(July 8, 2014 at 8:48 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Religion is irrelevant. . what matter is the journey to oneness. I myself don't believe in religion. . . therefore I am free to practice any religions, ie. simply because I don't believe in religion. IMO one cannot disbelieve in other Gods by creating new same God, and one cannot disbelieve in religions by creating new same religion. It is just hypocrisy. Therefore any practices is okay, as long it is the same journey to separate "self" and its conventions of perception and thought (illusion). . . I believe you are on your way to become or already are a True Atheist, ie. no god . . the psychological evolution from the egoic consciousness (duality) to self consciousness (unity).

Spoken like a true sathi of Sri Siva! I became a bit of an omnist after abandoning theism and dogmas associated with religion. Religions are useful but as me and you already know, they are useful when understood correctly. Many things in religion are ignorant and are ignorant because they came from an age of ignorance just as what we say will be ignorant in centuries to come. This cannot be helped.
I always have fun reflecting upon a memory I had years ago when I taught a new convert to Islam how to pray and he asked me how long I was a Muslim. I told him I was a Muslim for a few years and he became confused of my phrasing of the statement when I said "was". I told him I was an apostate and just liked hanging around the masjid. Baffles me how he would think that my dislike towards Muslims and Islams was not grounded upon hatred but reasoning and understanding.

I am a big fan of Fulsifah(Arabic/Islamic philosophy) so I find great joy in things like Islam, Hindu aesthetics and Dharmic principles. I am perhaps one of the few atheists who worships a god knowing fully well no god exists outside of my own mind. Does not bother me int he slightest.

Quote:IMO mukjizat is nonsense. . .and yeah, Allah is not a God. . it is just for human understanding, human terms since no one can understand Allah on its own, and there is an "interpretation provision" of Allah in the Quran (refer here). . similarly, this what this thread all about. . . God never existed at all, and it is a human duty to prove God does not exists, ie . through psychological evolution from the egoic consciousness (duality) to self consciousness (unity). . .experiencing the Oneness by separating the "self" and its conventions of perception and thought, the illusion.

Premise 1: No God
Premise 2: Only Allah

Premises in negative form, and affirming form. Therefore it is impossible for Allah to be a God and invalidating the first premise of "No God". There is no way Allah is a God.

It would actually help your argument greatly if you differentiated between external gods and subjective(internal) gods. The thing about Muslims is that they assert that Allah is an external being when Allah was an internal concept conjured by Muhammad to help explain the external world. Subjectivity is a massive opponent in religion and anything uttered by the words of Muhammad where but his own experiences and opinions and not objective truth. The mere concept of god is a psychological dependency and the quicker it is understood the better.

Maybe Allah is that stone in the Kaaba that the muslims pray to. That's what ISIS supposedly believes. So they reportedly said that they are going to destroy it.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Maybe Allah is that stone in the Kaaba that the muslims pray to. That's what ISIS supposedly believes. So they reportedly said that they are going to destroy it.

This is hilarious. We all know damn well that Muhammad had to give the wathani a treat by letting them worship the Kaaba still. Those stones are just stones and Muslims have been deluded to think that it is special.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: Religions are useful but as me and you already know, they are useful when understood correctly. Many things in religion are ignorant and are ignorant because they came from an age of ignorance just as what we say will be ignorant in centuries to come. This cannot be helped.

I agree, and it is very useful for spirituality etc. . people may consider religion as a "matriculation program" before one really wish to understand about their religion. . and all religion based on denying self and ego is okay, because in the end. . they will reach at the same place. In fact, Allah never opposes religion and wish for people to have many religions, but united as one nation of peace. . . diversity in unity.



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(July 8, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: I am a big fan of Fulsifah(Arabic/Islamic philosophy) so I find great joy in things like Islam, Hindu aesthetics and Dharmic principles. I am perhaps one of the few atheists who worships a god knowing fully well no god exists outside of my own mind. Does not bother me int he slightest.

It is the same journey of Abraham, when he thought the sun, moon, sea etc as God. .ie. God that exists as external object and outside of our self. In the end, he declared there is no god and turn his face to Oneness, "I shall turn my face to the One (ie. self consciousness) who initiated (acausal) the heavens and the earth (awareness)" (6:75-79).

(July 4, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: no matter how many people I've seen in this world . . . there is still only one person there, me!

God as object are common and since the beginning of mankind. People worshipping the stones, sun, animals, trees, Allah in the heaven etc. . God that think and act like a man. . . and I believe that is the difference between Islam and other systems of life. . .no god through self discovery and being independent from illusion of "I am God", the egoic consciousness (the Primary God, the "cause"). . . and in fact there is no ideology of "By God" or "Allah Alone" in the Quran because the Angels prostrate to Adam and associate Allah with Adam, ie. shirk. Ibless prostrate to Allah Alone and does not associate Allah with Adam. Iblees is By God (bigot). Therefore there is no god, and Muslim must eliminate their God and prostates (serves) all human beings like what the Angels did, ie. serving the descendants of Adam, prostrate.



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(July 8, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: It would actually help your argument greatly if you differentiated between external gods and subjective(internal) gods.

It is all about sensory perception . . . (refer here). . . and "law of cause and effect", whereas human being is the Primary God; ie. the "cause", and all gods and religions are the Secondary God, ie. the "effect". The Secondary Gods is irrelevant because it is the "effect" and "solely dependant" on the "cause". It can be in any forms, but their main traits is they are created by the Primary God from the illusion of their sensory perception.



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(July 8, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: The thing about Muslims is that they assert that Allah is an external being when Allah was an internal concept conjured by Muhammad to help explain the external world. Subjectivity is a massive opponent in religion and anything uttered by the words of Muhammad where but his own experiences and opinions and not objective truth.

IMO it is okay. It is the Sunnatullah, and everything has its steps and that is the step of understanding the reality, as equal to ourselves and every living thing. . . from baby, to a child, teen and grow older until people are old and died. The understanding will change if they are willing to be true to themselves. off.

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(July 8, 2014 at 9:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Maybe Allah is that stone in the Kaaba that the muslims pray to. That's what ISIS supposedly believes. So they reportedly said that they are going to destroy it.

Corrupted translation, and the Kaaba is not even in the Quran. .

(July 8, 2014 at 9:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Maybe Allah is that stone in the Kaaba that the muslims pray to. That's what ISIS supposedly believes. So they reportedly said that they are going to destroy it.

All hail ISIS they are right and Muslims are wrong for worshipping that filthy rock!

Worshipping the stone and inventing falsehood about Islam can be wrong , but oppressing people for what they belief does not make one right.
Therefore, I prefer giving them unconditional freedom of religion. . do whatever they like, and the same applies to all religions.

There is no dispute about the nature of people's beliefs, gods, and rituals

(July 8, 2014 at 10:54 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Worshipping the stone and inventing falsehood about Islam can be wrong , but oppressing people for what they belief does not make one right.
Therefore, I prefer giving them unconditional freedom of religion. . do whatever they like, and the same applies to all religions.

There is no dispute about the nature of people's beliefs, gods, and rituals

So you're OK with human sacrifice as long as it's part of some religion? Throw the virgins in the volcanoes and cut the hearts out of the living sacrifices to please the mighty god! And burn the witches at the stake because the holy book says so.

I don't believe in freedom of worshipping that filthy rock. I stand with ISIS

(July 8, 2014 at 11:30 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So you're OK with human sacrifice as long as it's part of some religion?

So long as they're throwing themselves over the rim, I can't see what the problem is. Hell, probably solving problems. Shouldn't there be a standing invitation to the religious in this regard? Please, by all means, hurry to meet your maker.

(July 8, 2014 at 11:30 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So you're OK with human sacrifice as long as it's part of some religion? Throw the virgins in the volcanoes and cut the hearts out of the living sacrifices to please the mighty god! And burn the witches at the stake because the holy book says so.

The freedom of religion is subjected that the practice is consistent with with other rules in the Quran, ie. there is no oppression on the people or the society

Quote:and I was commanded to be with justice between you
42.15

There are specific rules in the Quran about justice or protection from killing people . .
Human sacrifice or killing or burned people is a crime, and shall be subjected to other rules in the Quran, or . . . the Penal Code itself.

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(July 9, 2014 at 1:10 am)Losty Wrote: I don't believe in freedom of worshipping that filthy rock. I stand with ISIS

The same thing has happened before Islam, people support, kill and oppress others in the name of their religion or what they belief (bigot). .

Quote:And when it is said to them,
"Do not cause corruption on the earth,"
They say, "We are but reformers." (ie. in the name of their religion, sect or community)
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters
but they perceive [it] not. (ie. because they think they are right, it is what their God wants or it is right according to their system of life)
2:11-12

and that's why I said Islam came to end religion, through freedom of religion and unity in diversity.

Quote:The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, and the main theme of the Quran is to lay foundation for unity within diversity through freedom of religion. The Quran tells that the Prophets and Believers have become the target of injustice, tyranny and oppression, while they have never offered any cause for offence to the enemy, except their claim for balance and unity. On the other hand, the contraveners of social unity have created divisions and cause corruptions (these people are the Disbelievers in the Quran, and not true religious people who respect other religions).