(August 4, 2014 at 5:21 am)GodsRevolt Wrote:

(August 2, 2014 at 6:38 am)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: My initial reaction to this thread:
Oh, for fucks sake. Not another one of these "you can't be moral without the help of my personal deity" ass-cracks. Why do they seem to find this particular argument so compelling?

My reaction after reading it:
Oh, for fucks sake. Another one of these "you can't be moral without the help of my personal deity" ass-cracks. Why do they seem to find this particular argument so compelling?

Seriously, our morality (yours, mine, pretty much everyone's) comes from their empathy for their fellows and the society they live in. If I lose my empathy, the society I live in will usually suffice to maintain my morality. If my society fails, my empathy will carry me along. If both fail, well that's why some assholes are in prison.

You don't get your morals from a book or from some magic sky-fairy father figure. You get them from the exact same places everyone else gets them from. Deny it all you like, but there a morally upright people from all faiths and no faith, in all walks of life that give lie to your claim that morality comes only from the realm of the supernatural.

This is a misunderstanding of what I am saying. I never said that a person cannot be moral without believing in God. I am asking on what grounds does an atheist stand when demanding that someone act morally towards them or any other human being. There is no consistent moral standard, and when there is disagreement as to what is moral, the "evolved morals within everyone" falls apart.

Of course an atheist can be a moral person. Anyone can practice morality. The question is, where did that morality come from and how does it play out when the shit hits the fan?

Societal mores are all we have. They come from our empathy and our societies, as I have already stated. I stand on the ground that you bloody well conform to the mores of the society you live in else someone's gonna toss your ass in jail. I think I already went over this...

You claim that you're not claiming that our morality comes from some sky-dwelling overlord, but your arguments sound just like every christer I've heard making the absolute moral authority claim.

Morality is subjective and, over the long term, transient. There are no absolute mores either handed down from on high or derived from society.

(August 4, 2014 at 6:29 am)GodsRevolt Wrote: It is important to separate the standard and the people that claim to follow the standard.

Typical, but this time it's the 'No True Irish Catholic' defense.

If Catholic is defined by those that strictly abide by Catechism without fault, then there is no such thing as a Catholic. You fuckers will say anything, anything to deflect how fucked up your reasoning is and its dire consequences. Your precious Catechism didn't prevent this woman from dying at the hands of self professed Catholics representing a Catholic institution and doing what they knew to be Catholic, did it?

(August 1, 2014 at 2:24 am)GodsRevolt Wrote: In an atheist world, where do the standards by which moral actions are measured come from?

I got my morals from my parents.

People, morals are only valid if they benefit people. If you morals have an exterior standard such as a god they are not morals, they are laws.

If a theists says: "my morals come from god" they are morons. If I command you to help a child it does not make it moral, it just means you were obeying me. The same applies for religious people as theirs "morals" are anything but morals. Morals are only relevant upon other people and can only be formed by individuals were actions are placed amongst each others.
There is no morality involved when forming regulations by laws when you are not a relevant person of a society. Humans have no rights to judge animals the same way that animals have no right to judge humans. The same applies for god.

Considering that we know that no divine being created us it is not ethical for any system of morality to be relevant based on the mandates of a god. That deity is thus lying and the people involved are only being subservient not ethical.

If your morality allegedly comes from god then you are immoral.

(August 8, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: People, morals are only valid if they benefit people. If you morals have an exterior standard such as a god they are not morals, they are laws.

If a theists says: "my morals come from god" they are morons. If I command you to help a child it does not make it moral, it just means you were obeying me. The same applies for religious people as theirs "morals" are anything but morals. Morals are only relevant upon other people and can only be formed by individuals were actions are placed amongst each others.
There is no morality involved when forming regulations by laws when you are not a relevant person of a society. Humans have no rights to judge animals the same way that animals have no right to judge humans. The same applies for god.

Considering that we know that no divine being created us it is not ethical for any system of morality to be relevant based on the mandates of a god. That deity is thus lying and the people involved are only being subservient not ethical.

If your morality allegedly comes from god then you are immoral.

Yep.

If a a person follows an edict, because an authority figure claims it is moral, they are not acting as a moral agent. They are merely an order follower.

(August 8, 2014 at 6:36 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: If a a person follows an edict, because an authority figure claims it is moral, they are not acting as a moral agent. They are merely an order follower.

And possibly a moral coward.

well, it seems I can't flame stupid atheist so have to be nice to theist by default . But most atheist can't understand that simple notion so I will move on. How did your god give you morals OP? They were given to every human the same way. DNA.