For once, I'm going to start a thread that's not about religion or politics and discuss a lighter subject.

In another thread about Robin Williams, the movie "Good Will Hunting" was mentioned. IMO, Robin Williams was the only good (or tolerable) part of that movie. I mentioned that the main character, played by the emotionally flat Matt Daemon, struck me as being a tiresome "Marty Stu".

It actually got me thinking about the "Mary Sue"/"Marty Stu" trope and wanted to open a discussion as to what other examples of this story telling faux paus made its way onto the silver screen or some other published medium.

For those who aren't familiar with the trope, it's an author self-insertion as a form of wish-fulfillment. There's an important distinction between story-telling and fantasizing. The Mary Sue-Marty Stu character crosses that line, beyond just the heroic or exceptional and into the ridiculous. They know everything, are skilled at everything, are instantly admired/loved/respected/envied by nearly everyone for no apparent reason and have no character flaws aside from ones that add to their appeal.

Different people will have different standards or ideas of exactly when a hero/heroine is identified as fitting the trope, so there may be some disagreement here as to what qualifies.

"Will Hunting" seems to tick off every checkbox of the Marty Stu. He's not just a born intuitive mathematics genius but he's an expert on everything in every field of study. He's read and memorized every book in his local library. And he's a body builder, of course. And he's super cool and liked by everyone, except for those hapless unnamed characters he quickly humiliates with his superior wit and intimidating presence. His only character flaw, common with Marty Stu types, is he is brooding and edgy. Will Hunting's only struggle is realizing he deserves to realize his potential and live the great life he's destined for.

"Twilight" features what I think is a good example of a Mary Sue trope as the main character. Bella arrives at a new school and is instantly popular for no apparent reason. Two hot guys fall madly in love with her, again for no apparent reason, and the series is dominated by their fight over her affections.

Does anyone have any Mary Sues or Marty Stus you've spotted in movies or other professionally published story?

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P.S. My wife is an author and introduced me to the trope and how to identify it. She's paraded many a badly written fanfic for us to laugh at and calls me in when Chris Hardwick on @Midnight when he does Fanfiction Theater (where the Mary Sue characters are identified, acted out and laughed at).

These tropes should be expected in internet fanfics. What amazes me is how they make it all the way to professional publications which ought to do a better job screening these things.

This guy! This motherfucker right here!

Kirito, the protagonist of Sword Art Online, is possibly the most blatant Marty Stu I've ever seen in a completed, popular work. He's the strongest, fastest, most skilled fighter in the entire series, he's got special weapons nobody else has, he can even dual wield, which is a skill only he possesses and the story makes a big deal out of as this unique technique. Any woman he meets will fall in love with him, and he has the second strongest character in the series, a hot redhead, hanging off his arm. In fact, the entire second half of the first series was devoted to a weird male power fantasy where he has to rescue that same woman (she's his prize, a lot of the time) by enlisting the aid of a bunch of other hot women... all of whom seem totally willing to bone him.

What really tips the scales, to me, is that even when he does absolutely wrong things, the narrative voice still portrays them as being good, like the guy can literally do no wrong. When he fights the final villain of the first series, he deliberately constructs a situation that allows him to indulge in some cold blooded torture for absolutely no reason other than to watch the villain suffer, and the entire thing is framed in heroic shots and pumping music. It just comes across as gross.

My wife mentioned that anime, much as she's a fan, is sometimes prone to creating Mary Sue, Marty Stu types. Personally, I don't think anime has a lock on that trope.

Sometimes, the line can be fuzzy and less overt than the one you offered. After all, heroes and heroines are supposed to be exceptional people who accomplish great things, look cool doing it and all this while having a hot love interest. In some ways, the Mary Sue/Marty Stu seems like an exaggeration to the point where they can do anything, are flawless at all times and all other characters fawn all over them for no apparent reason. The more campy action genres or formulaic romance comedies seem to feature main characters that come closer to that line.

James Bond strikes me as being a Marty Stu, though I really don't mind somehow. Unlike the other two examples I gave, he's an entertaining Marty. All the over-the-top camp, ludicrously romanticized glamour and predictable formulaic plots just add comedic value and I accept it as part of the genre.

Wesley Crusher of Star Trek The Next Generation. He's a nerdy little boy I ought to love, except that he does everything well and gets too many chances, too much responsibility, and does too well way too young.

As much as I love him, Batman.

(August 13, 2014 at 11:01 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: As much as I love him, Batman.

You have something there. Almost all of the superheros: Superman and Spiderman stand out me though.

Most action movies use this trope pretty blatantly, especially those where the main character (who is an unparalleled bad-ass) doesn't want to get involved yet is forced to open can after can of whup-ass because the bad guy:

- gets him incarcerated on trumped-up charges
- is about to steal the main love-interest's family farm
- kills the protagonist's brother/sister/mother/father/favorite uncle
- is selling drugs and prostituting young girls in the old neighborhood

...and so on. Since action movies rely on sympathetic (if sometimes flawed) sidekicks and one-dimensional bad guys, the hero is always cheered by the common folk and relentlessly goaded by the bad guys. Many of the films include a scene or two where the hero gets to help out a needy local, because being a major-league ass-kicker doesn't mean you don't also have a soft side! In the more completely off-the-wall films, the main good guy will also save and adopt an adorable puppy. (That last one? Not a joke, I believe Steven Seagal threw that one into one of his movies, and he's as good an example of the trope as you'll find.)

Superman is the easiest example. There are entire superhero comics that have one or two of his grab bag of bullshit powers.

(August 13, 2014 at 11:04 am)Jenny A Wrote:

(August 13, 2014 at 11:01 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: As much as I love him, Batman.

You have something there. Almost all of the superheros: Superman and Spiderman stand out me though.

I don't read comics so others might know better than I do about this. It seems to me that Marvel makes more of an effort to make their characters three dimensional, complete with power limitations, tragic mistakes or personality flaws, the surrounding characters act with their own motivations rather than just fawn all over the protagonist. Stan Lee makes cameo appearances in all the movies but that's the same kind of self-insertion (as the main character) that the trope represents. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one since my knowledge is limited to what's in the movies.

Wolverine seems to walk that line and some believe, depending on the writer, he ventures over it.

(August 13, 2014 at 12:12 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: "Twilight" features what I think is a good example of a Mary Sue trope as the main character. Bella arrives at a new school and is instantly popular for no apparent reason. Two hot guys fall madly in love with her, again for no apparent reason, and the series is dominated by their fight over her affections.

This.

Don't get me started on why I detest these books, but suffice it to say this is the most blatant example of Mary-Sueing in recent years.