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Evidence for God being "a superior being" ?
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H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: Evidence for God being "a superior being" ?
June 11, 2010 at 7:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 11, 2010 at 7:32 pm by fr0d0.)
Yeah you made that point already Caecillian. I asked a different question. One contained in my previous post but you ignored it there too. 2nd chance hotel.
 RE: Evidence for God being "a superior being" ?
June 12, 2010 at 1:22 am
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2010 at 1:23 am by tackattack.)
(June 11, 2010 at 7:29 am)Rwandrall Wrote:He didn’t make us as sinners or imperfect. He made us as decision makers in his image. It’s ludicrous to think that God created us in his image and also create us as imperfect or sinners. Your misconception lies in the fact that he created us perfect the way we are and that includes giving us the ability to turn against him and be autonomous and that each individual should be accountable for his/her own actions and decisions. (June 11, 2010 at 8:43 am)tavarish Wrote:Or in the context that he is omnipresent and exists outside the rules of the known universe. (June 11, 2010 at 8:47 am)Welsh cake Wrote:Perhaps that was poorly worded, thanks! God’s Love is a separate concept to that of the human emotion love was my point. Also that it is an identifier of God’s nature. It’s also axiomatically and unforeseeably unobtainable. Faith also thrives on a questioning attitude and scrutiny. Honestly I don’t think religions as a whole or blind faith does though. I would also agree that science holds a better explanatory power for material existence than sky daddy does. tav Wrote:It's a horrible analogy, as electricity is still bound by laws. Just because there's an infinite amount of it doesn't change the fact that it is subject to certain criteria in order to be called electricity. God, on the other hand, is taken by your arguments to be the necessary author of these laws, a prescribing force rather than describing force. This raises the questions we've been asking you all along, and which you dodge continuously. For the sake of argument, I'll assume your version of God is plausible.1- He doesn’t necessarily have to have a nature, but due to his observability in this universe he therefore has some sort of nature that’s observable. 2- I suppose he could… It depends.. Can you be anyone other than you? It would be possible I’m guessing, but holds no weight because any deviation from one’s nature is a temporary and unnatural state. 3- Could you please rephrase I’m not getting it, (Sorry I’m tired) 4- I don’t see anything he can’t do. Some things are outside of his nature to do (like affect free will), but nothing prevents him from doing anything due his omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. Basically the only thing that limits God is God.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari  (June 12, 2010 at 1:22 am)tackattack Wrote: He didn’t make us as sinners or imperfect. He made us as decision makers in his image. It’s ludicrous to think that God created us in his image and also create us as imperfect or sinners. Your misconception lies in the fact that he created us perfect the way we are and that includes giving us the ability to turn against him and be autonomous and that each individual should be accountable for his/her own actions and decisions. He did create us as sinners. What i constantly hear with Christians is that man's problems are the fault of man himself because we are sinners so we deserve to be mortal, to have pain, and to go burn for eternity. But God created sin, God created us as potential sinners, and God created the possibility for us to sin, while (as an all-knowing being) knowing that we would sin. From our point of view, there is a choice. We can sin or not sin. However God knows who will sin, and when. First, this means that God testing humans is completely illogical and obviously a man-made excuse, since he necessarily knows the outcome of these choices. Second, apparently God is okay with letting a vast portion of his "beloved" children go to Hell (non-christians, gays, divorced, those who have sex before marriage...) in the name of having a "choice". An all-loving God would do anything to prevent his children from going to Hell, he would even show himself to the world to save only one soul. My point is that even if God existed, i do not have any good reason to believe he loves us.  (June 12, 2010 at 6:09 am)Rwandrall Wrote: "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
(June 12, 2010 at 6:09 am)Rwandrall Wrote:Saying we as mankind are sinners does not mean he created us to sin. Because we have the ability to choose that allows us the opportunity to sin. There is no inherited sin from Adam, that's a common misconception. Man's problems ARE the fault of man himself, but not because we were born sinners or deserve anting, but because we sin. God created the opportunity to sin, and yes he saw it coming. Me as a Father can let my child go play out back, knowing full well he has the option to fall, get kidnapped, or whatever. If this cycle went on for eternity and I saw every single possibility play itself out, and that a majority of the time nothing happened to my son, I could then conclude that it's better to let him go outside and risk it to learn something then keep him cooped up. I hope that illustrated the point you're not getting better. God knowing the outcome has zero bearing on us as a species learning from those outcomes over time, which I believe is the point to learning. If we were all born with God's knowledge and perspective, there would be no learning or growh as a species. God is not ok letting a vast portion "go to hell", he proved it by sacrificing his son for all of us. He can't force you to accept his love though. One more time with this analogy. You can stand out in the rain and wee everyone else being wet and miserable and be wet and miserable yourself, or you can come in out of he rain. He's invited everyone in, but not everyone comes in.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari (June 12, 2010 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote:Saying we as mankind are sinners does not mean he created us to sin. Because we have the ability to choose that allows us the opportunity to sin. There is no inherited sin from Adam, that's a common misconception. Man's problems ARE the fault of man himself, but not because we were born sinners or deserve anting, but because we sin. God created the opportunity to sin, and yes he saw it coming. Me as a Father can let my child go play out back, knowing full well he has the option to fall, get kidnapped, or whatever. If this cycle went on for eternity and I saw every single possibility play itself out, and that a majority of the time nothing happened to my son, I could then conclude that it's better to let him go outside and risk it to learn something then keep him cooped up. I hope that illustrated the point you're not getting better. God knowing the outcome has zero bearing on us as a species learning from those outcomes over time, which I believe is the point to learning. If we were all born with God's knowledge and perspective, there would be no learning or growh as a species. God is not ok letting a vast portion "go to hell", he proved it by sacrificing his son for all of us. He can't force you to accept his love though. One more time with this analogy. You can stand out in the rain and wee everyone else being wet and miserable and be wet and miserable yourself, or you can come in out of he rain. He's invited everyone in, but not everyone comes in. [/hide] Sorry Tacky ...you are just mind fucking yourself again...sweetie... 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
 (June 12, 2010 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: There is no inherited sin from Adam, that's a common misconception.So, was there any dying on the cross for our sins? Enlighten me.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis Faith is illogical - fr0d0  (June 11, 2010 at 7:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yeah you made that point already Caecillian. I asked a different question. One contained in my previous post but you ignored it there too. 2nd chance hotel. I said that the whole concept of 'omnipotence' might well be incoherent. On reflection, I think that it is. If an entity is omnipotent then it can do things which will render it powerless. So 'omnipotence' is not necessarily a permanent state. But is impermanent omnipotence really omnipotence? Presumably not, since it rules out doing things at points in the future. Equally, if an entity is omnipotent it can do anything then it can do things that it can't undo. But of course it must be able to do them. So again, a contradiction. Hope this answers your question.
He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
Mikhail Bakunin A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything Friedrich Nietzsche
[youtube]Ni96T0HgwBY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
PR- There is more historicity in Jesus than there is for the story of Adam and Eve. Is that all you wanted to comment on?
Caecillian- Having the capability does not necessitate the will to act. Would you willingly act to limit yourself if you were all powerfull? No, doesn't make sense. Could you.. probably but that wouldn't be in your nature. KN- No one on here is shoving religion down your throat or calling you miserable or useless as your video depicts. If you can't keep your intolerance of other people's belief in check when someone is trying to explain their beliefs becasue they were asked to, please feel free to ignore any more of my posts.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari |
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