(October 5, 2014 at 1:00 pm)Retrolord Wrote: I stopped believing in Hindu gods because I couldn't find where they drew the line between mythology and what they actually believe.
Example- they have a flood story in which Vishnu becomes a fish and guides the last living man to safety.
It is almost entirely regarded as mythology. But if it is mythology, does that mean vishnu never became a fish? So one out of 10 avatars never happened? Buddha is also an avatar of Vishnu, yet he says there is no god. There goes one more. So if only 10 out of 10 avatars never happened how can Vishnu exist?
Also other things- Ganesh rides a mouse? Hanuman (monkey god) flew to the sun?

Hmmm Out of the frying pan into the fire I'd say:

Did God create the universe in six days or that metaphorical?

Is the sky a dome holding back water and supported by four pillars?

Did snakes have legs until they talked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit?

Did Johna live inside a whale?

Did the sun stop in the sky just so the Hebrews could win a battle?

Is the Biblical account of the promised land historical.

Faith or works?

Oh yes Jenny A I believe they were all myths. BUT the falsity of dashavatar simply blows everything out of the water. No world wide flood-no fish avatar- no dashavatar- no Vishnu- none of the other avatars. That means no rama, krishna , parshurama, buddha, (a boar and a half lion also included. And no Krishna no mahabharata.

Faith or works- do you mean to say hindus are better than christians? Goodness doesn't depend on religion or country. If it did, 20000 muslims wouldn't have been killed, christian conveets wouldn't have been pounded ( a girl lost her face to sulphuric acid) women wouldn't have to shave their head or burn when their husband died earlier.

I never said that some religions are good or bad. A bad Buddhist could be just as bad as a bad muslim. The catholic church has done horrible things in the past but that doesn't make every christian bad.

To the OP: I think the dashavatar thing would work quite well if you want to prove your point. But I suggest you don't tell anyone. People don't take it lightly here. Also, let them believe if they want to. If you love them you want to see them happy right? Maybe worshipping hindu gods makes them happy

No flood, no Adam and eve, no Moses, no exodus

What's the difference?

(October 5, 2014 at 1:39 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Faith or works- do you mean to say hindus are better than christians?

Why are you jumping to the "better or worse" conclusion? Jenny A is most likely referring to the hindu concept of 'Karma', which is basically taking action, NOT how it will effect your reincarnation as most believe in the west. Krishna in the Gita also clarifies that a man can only perform action/work and the result of that, reward or punishment, is up to "paramatma", so we shouldn't worry over it so much. At least doing your duty or work is more practical than "just believe and be saved".

And don't ignore the similarity between Matsya avatar scenario to that of the noah or gilgamesh.

Oh also don't forget, in Padma Puran, the Matsa Avatar story is reffered to as 'Tamas' meaning it is from darkness or ignorance. Christianity never claims any form of ignorance within it's texts.


And lastly, try and understand, christianity is not better than hinduism and the other way is the same. Religion is stupid and useless no matter whichever you are talking about.

Hmm good one.
I must say ever since I signed up a couple of hours ago, I have had my mind exercised and filled with interesting ideas. and don't worry, I never said hindus or anyone else is evil . I just don't like spending time with them (go to surrey, BC Canada, you'll see why)

Just my views as a future RCIA candidate, if you wish to read them:

Christianity doesn't say faith alone will send us to heaven. Our actions play a big part. We are to do our works with- love, joy patience, gentleness, kindness, self control, goodness, peace, faithfulness. With these "fruits" or blessings of the holy Spirit, we are to deal with others. It makes the world a better place.
THIS is why god needs us to trust in the holy Spirit ( so that we may get the blessings.) I'm not saying atheists don't have these traits, but I stand witness to say it is hard without faithfulness (belief that god will guide your heart even when you get discouraged by humanity) and joy ( joy knowing someone up there is smiling when we do good). That is why the saints gave their lives to serving others. They had all nine fruits. Maybe that's why it is called a sin-because it must be thought that without faithfulness and joy how can you have the other fruits of the spirit? If you don't have them how can you make the world a better place? Sadly, such christians are rare to non existent nowadays.
Also I don't believe in hell for non believers. It all boils down to works as I wrote above.
You don't have to believe in the same thing as me or like what I've written. just try to understand what I meant by this.

(October 5, 2014 at 1:39 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Oh yes Jenny A I believe they were all myths. BUT the falsity of dashavatar simply blows everything out of the water. No world wide flood-no fish avatar- no dashavatar- no Vishnu- none of the other avatars. That means no rama, krishna , parshurama, buddha, (a boar and a half lion also included. And no Krishna no mahabharata.

I only meant the Christianity is full of obvious myths.

Quote: Faith or works- do you mean to say hindus are better than christians?

No, it's a question about Catholicism. Faith versus works is an old Christian debate about what is necessary to get to heaven: faith in god, good works, or both. It's a question raised during the reformation. All Christian sects that I know require faith. Some also require works or consider works to be manifestation of faith.

Quote: Goodness doesn't depend on religion or country.

I didn't suggest it did. But I will now. It's not determinative, but some religions and some cultures promote violence, discrimination and other immoral things. The more violent or unjust the culture you live in, the likely you will be violent or unjust. Religion is a major part of culture.

More importantly, and it's why I brought faith versus works up, is that Christianity is somewhat ambivalent about the need to do good.

(October 5, 2014 at 1:00 pm)Retrolord Wrote: I stopped believing in Hindu gods because I couldn't find where they drew the line between mythology and what they actually believe.
Example- they have a flood story in which Vishnu becomes a fish and guides the last living man to safety.
It is almost entirely regarded as mythology. But if it is mythology, does that mean vishnu never became a fish? So one out of 10 avatars never happened? Buddha is also an avatar of Vishnu, yet he says there is no god. There goes one more. So if only 10 out of 10 avatars never happened how can Vishnu exist?
Also other things- Ganesh rides a mouse? Hanuman (monkey god) flew to the sun?

That is what happens when religious mythology clashes with reality. People want to hold on to their religious beliefs and accept reality and can't decide which one to do and to which extent - so they become confused as to where to draw the line.

Example - Did Noah really build a boat that could hold every species? Did Adam's sons fuck their sisters to populate the earth? Was Mary really a virgin or did she step out on Joseph? And the whole resurrection thing - that's just metaphorical, right?
Also other things - the talking snake? Demons possessing pigs?

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(October 5, 2014 at 1:07 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Yeh, actually 'ganja' and 'bhang' (read marijuana) are a necessary part of quite a few celebrations, especially those involving Lord Shiva. And Indra and Varuni, two elemental gods are pretty much drunk all the time, the second one is also the god of wine, so drinking is quite acceptable. So yeh, basically in the pantheon there is a god for almost anything and everything you want to do, and you are free to do whatever you want.

You forgot Holi - one of the biggest festivals in Hindu culture which is basically one giant water-fight with colors and ends with drinking Bhang with your friends.

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(October 5, 2014 at 1:39 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Oh yes Jenny A I believe they were all myths. BUT the falsity of dashavatar simply blows everything out of the water. No world wide flood-no fish avatar- no dashavatar- no Vishnu- none of the other avatars. That means no rama, krishna , parshurama, buddha, (a boar and a half lion also included. And no Krishna no mahabharata.

The falsity of bible blows everything out of the water as well - no Adam or Eve, no Noah, no Moses, no Jesus and no resurrection. So, why pick one over the other?

(October 5, 2014 at 1:39 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Faith or works- do you mean to say hindus are better than christians? Goodness doesn't depend on religion or country. If it did, 20000 muslims wouldn't have been killed, christian conveets wouldn't have been pounded ( a girl lost her face to sulphuric acid) women wouldn't have to shave their head or burn when their husband died earlier.

I agree - both religions are equally bad. So, why the switch?

(October 5, 2014 at 2:31 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Christianity doesn't say faith alone will send us to heaven. Our actions play a big part.

There are many flavors of Christianity, that's true. The ones I am familiar with claimed that if I don't have faith, then I can't do good, or my actions don't have any meaning. Basically to them, faith is the primary requirement, which I personally cannot accept.

Aoi Magi please read my last post (the long one) that should explain it. There's more, but it's midnight in my part of the world so I think I won't answer in detail just now
Peace

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Oh I see you did

Were they catholic or protestant?

(October 5, 2014 at 2:31 pm)Retrolord Wrote: Just my views as a future RCIA candidate, if you wish to read them:

Christianity doesn't say faith alone will send us to heaven. Our actions play a big part. We are to do our works with- love, joy patience, gentleness, kindness, self control, goodness, peace, faithfulness. With these "fruits" or blessings of the holy Spirit, we are to deal with others. It makes the world a better place.
THIS is why god needs us to trust in the holy Spirit ( so that we may get the blessings.) I'm not saying atheists don't have these traits, but I stand witness to say it is hard without faithfulness (belief that god will guide your heart even when you get discouraged by humanity) and joy ( joy knowing someone up there is smiling when we do good). That is why the saints gave their lives to serving others. They had all nine fruits. Maybe that's why it is called a sin-because it must be thought that without faithfulness and joy how can you have the other fruits of the spirit? If you don't have them how can you make the world a better place? Sadly, such christians are rare to non existent nowadays.
Also I don't believe in hell for non believers. It all boils down to works as I wrote above.
You don't have to believe in the same thing as me or like what I've written. just try to understand what I meant by this.

This sounds exactly like the recipe for any "modern" religious person.
1) Take any religious text of your choice.
2) Clean out all the disgusting, immoral and bigoted parts.
3) Ignore all the parts that fly in the face of reality or consider them metaphorical.
4) Reinterpret the text to give results consistent with your current value system.
5) Put in the heavy feel-good dressing with lots of love and kindness.
6) Present it as a beautiful and wonderful thing that has very little in common with the original.


You can do the same thing with Hinduism. It is the same recipe as the fabled stone-soup. Which leads me to ask again - why does the type of stone matter?