Oh, I see, this is all about your enlightened and mature attitudes about the punishment of juveniles? I don't understand, then, why you've chosen sharking, rather than making a post about the general principle of punishing teens, or of whether it's ever okay to treat them as adults. Certainly, there was no discussion about juveniles in the OP, which I find pretty strange. Normally, when I start a thread about something, I make the OP about that thing. I wouldn't start a thread about mind/matter duality, for example, entitled, "What do you think about kiddie porn?" and then surprise everyone several posts in that I was really talking about the philosophy of mind. I'd title it, "What do you think about mind/matter duality?"

No, I think I do understand: you're full of shit. You obviously started this thread for the fun of being controversial, as supported by:

(October 15, 2014 at 1:13 am)Zidneya Wrote: Oh and I have inappropriately touch someone else, and I never received not even a slap.

People rarely use cute smiley characters about things they consider horrific crimes. Nobody, for example, ever says, "Teeheehee, holocaust "

You also encouraged us to view this illegal content, which I consider a borderline criminal behavior in itself, or at least unethical, since you're not supposed to encourage others to violate the rights of others:

Quote:Since I can't post nude images here I'm gonna ask you to go to youtube and type " sharking street " if you want to watch it for yourselves.

This indicates that you have knowingly viewed this sexual crime, and that you think others should also view it. It's also an insult toward the rest of the AF.org readership-- why you think watching it would be more enlightening than just a verbal description I can't understand.

In the end, when it very soon became apparent that nobody else was going to think that sexual "pranks" were funny even a little bit, you began a truly epic backpedal, trying to turn your trolling thread into a serious discussion. Nice save, but I'm not buying it. I can only assume that you live in a backward-ass country where men still see women as playthings, and where sexual crimes are looked on with an unfortunate leniency. So fuck you, AND whatever medieval shithole you have crawled out from.

^^This. All of it.

I think he's Mexican

(October 18, 2014 at 6:41 am)DramaQueen Wrote: I think he's Mexican

Thus the "Ayendiz" name, huh? Well, I think there are many wonderful things about Mexican culture, but I'm not sure that respect for women is high on the list-- am I wrong?

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: [*]I don't think that a teen who comits sharking will certainly grow up to be a rapist or a sociopath.

They already are committing acts of sexual assault so that they may not carry on is almost irrelevant.

You eat one person and you are a cannibal for life.

Quote:[*]We should be indulgent with teen criminals who commit sharking.
[*]We wouldn't tried them as adults(because they aren't adults)

Fuck that, throw the book at the evil scum.

Quote:[*]I don think that sending this kids to prison will neither solve the problem nor help them at all.

You could say that about all prison sentences for people of any age. But in cases like these chemical castration would be the solution then!

Quote:[*] Yes I care for the teen criminals(because they are still human beings and teenagers).

No these people are evil bastards who need to be dealt with.
Little arseholes tend to grow into big arseholes if they aren't stopped.

http://youtu.be/i2fEzj0ZCJ0

(October 18, 2014 at 4:31 am)bennyboy Wrote: Oh, I see, this is all about your enlightened and mature attitudes about the punishment of juveniles? I don't understand, then, why you've chosen sharking, rather than making a post about the general principle of punishing teens, or of whether it's ever okay to treat them as adults. Certainly, there was no discussion about juveniles in the OP, which I find pretty strange. Normally, when I start a thread about something, I make the OP about that thing. I wouldn't start a thread about mind/matter duality, for example, entitled, "What do you think about kiddie porn?" and then surprise everyone several posts in that I was really talking about the philosophy of mind. I'd title it, "What do you think about mind/matter duality?"

No, I think I do understand: you're full of shit. You obviously started this thread for the fun of being controversial, as supported by:

(October 15, 2014 at 1:13 am)Zidneya Wrote: Oh and I have inappropriately touch someone else, and I never received not even a slap.

People rarely use cute smiley characters about things they consider horrific crimes. Nobody, for example, ever says, "Teeheehee, holocaust "

You also encouraged us to view this illegal content, which I consider a borderline criminal behavior in itself, or at least unethical, since you're not supposed to encourage others to violate the rights of others:

Quote:Since I can't post nude images here I'm gonna ask you to go to youtube and type " sharking street " if you want to watch it for yourselves.

This indicates that you have knowingly viewed this sexual crime, and that you think others should also view it. It's also an insult toward the rest of the AF.org readership-- why you think watching it would be more enlightening than just a verbal description I can't understand.

In the end, when it very soon became apparent that nobody else was going to think that sexual "pranks" were funny even a little bit, you began a truly epic backpedal, trying to turn your trolling thread into a serious discussion. Nice save, but I'm not buying it. I can only assume that you live in a backward-ass country where men still see women as playthings, and where sexual crimes are looked on with an unfortunate leniency. So fuck you, AND whatever medieval shithole you have crawled out from.

QFT.

And, to repeat: fuck you, Zid. Everything you have said has been about compassion for the criminals, and not the victims of sexual assault. You started a thread to be controversial, and when everyone got offended (as they should; after all, we are human), you tried to do some major back pedalling. Too late. You have been found out as the misogynistic prick you are.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote:

---

okay I'm gonna post my position so there will be no further misunderstanding.
Because I'm sick and tired of them.

• I don't think that a teen who comits sharking will certainly grow up to be a rapist or a sociopath.
  
• We should be indulgent with teen criminals who commit sharking.
  
• We wouldn't tried them as adults(because they aren't adults)
  
• No! I'm not ignoring the feelings of the victims.
  
• No I'm not saying this acts aren't crimes.
  
• No I'm not saying this crimes stop being pranks.
  
• No I'm not saying this crimes should be unnoticed nor unpunished.
  
• I don think that sending this kids to prison will neither solve the problem nor help them at all.
  
• Yes I care for the teen criminals(because they are still human beings and teenagers).
  
• I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IS SO DAMN DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THIS POINTS?(I'm not asking you to share them people I just wish that someone will take five second to read them and say: Oh so that is what zidneya thinks of sharking)
  

---

A teen who comits sharking will probably not grow up to be a rapist, but may already be a sociopath.

We should not be indulgent with anyone who commits sharking or any other type of sexual battery regardless of age.

We should not try a teenager as adult for this crime unless he/she already has a criminal record of such behavior.

When you call it a prank it seems like you are ignoring the feelings of the victims.

Any type of sexual assault and/or battery is a crime. It's not a prank and it isn't funny. Most people are probably upset because I believe you said something along the lines of when I saw the videos, I was laughing. I wonder if you would find it funny if it was your daughter? I wonder if you knew a young girl whose body was published in a video on youtube after sharking and was now being severely bullied and harassed and extorted by her peers and contemplating suicide because she can't see any escape from something she never asked for that hurts her very much, I wonder if you would still say oh it was just a prank.

As far as I know, we don't generally send kids to adult prisons unless there is murder or actual rape involved. I would go as far as to say I don't think any of these people (regardless of age) should have to go to prison for a first time sharking offense. The teenagers should be punished obviously. In a way that leaves a lasting impression that what they did was wrong and is never acceptable or funny. They should also be mandated to attend therapy.

I still don't understand why you are yelling.

I read your views, and besides from the prank part I think I agree with you. What I don't agree with is the way you present it. Oh they're just kids, it's just a prank. No. They're criminals and what they've done is disturbing and they probably have some sort of mental problem that needs to be resolved so that they can learn and understand empathy. They need to be loved and valued and treated with compassion because they are kids, but they also need to learn a serious lesson about the crime they committed and get some professional help so they can understand that strangers are people too and their actions have a real impact on other people's lives.

I respect your right to have your opinion, but I don't have to respect your opinion and I will not agree to disagree on a subject I take so seriously. When you call it a prank, I take offense. When you call it a prank, I feel like you are lessoning the impact it could have on the victim. When you call it a prank I feel like you are dehumanizing the victims. So long as you continue to call it a prank, I will continue to tell you that you are wrong.

No comment.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: Yeah because Lawmakers are the perfect example of moral judgment.

Why, who else decides laws? They could be wrong, yeah, but it's their job to determine what's legal and illegal. Or maybe that would be the courts...

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: Besides what? just because a lawmaker promulgates a law will that stop people from object(with rational arguments)? Or that it will make it good. You have any idea how many unfair laws are in the world.

I'm sure there are bad laws out there; I can even think of some. I'm just saying that they're the ones appointed to make laws so... they make laws.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: Okay I gotta ask when did I said that this pranks weren't criminal activities? Pranks can be performed in by commenting vandalism and defamation as well. Does that stop them from being pranks? Does that stop them from being criminal activities?

Let's see:

dictionary.com Wrote:noun
1.
a trick of an amusing, playful, or sometimes malicious nature.

I guess I stand corrected. I suppose it is technically a prank; I just that that referring to it exclusively as that downplayed its significance.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: INDULGENCE ISN’T ALL FORGIVING!! What! Do I need to star selling T-shirts for you to get it!

Then I clearly have misunderstood your position.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: I swear I hear one more freaking time anyone else accusing me of saying that I'm willing to let this crimes go unforgiving and I will leave this thread. Because how can I believe that even after 8 freaking pages people still can't get that that's not my posture at all!!
Okay when did I said that I was willing to letting them get off scot-free.

I don't think you said that. ...there appears to have been some miscommunication on my part. I've been busy lately, and after going back over your posts, it appears I skimmed some of them a bit too shallowly. All I remembered was you instantly leaping to the defense of the perpetrators.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: I means. How can you decide what's good or bad for other people if you don't take five seconds to understand other people. What you think that everyone else thinks like you? Or that they should think like you? When you claim your moral judgments are coronet but at the same time you don't even take an effort to understand other people I have to ask. What you are saying is the right thing for the world or to yourself?

So... it's wrong of me to think that other people should act in a civilized manner, and when they do bad things I should just brush it off with "boys will be boys"? I'm not saying they should be crucified, but something should be done to make it clear that their actions aren't harmless.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: Some of the most horrible things in the world happened at the hands of boys but that doesn't take out the fact that they are still boys.(now you see why I posted this on the Philosophy section)

Or the fact that they were horrible things.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: I get that you never made a prank but apparently that has become a excuse for you.
If you look at your previous statement you'll see the following.

I was a good boy therefor I don't understand them and therefor I will cease any effort or attempt in trying to understand them.
I gotta ask you never felt the imp use or desire to break the rules? To do something even after knowing that everyone else would judge you badly for that?

It isn't so much whether I will be judged, but whether it is right or wrong. I didn't consciously choose to do bad things, though that isn't to say I never did anything bad, just that I didn't particularly hurt anyone if I did.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: To have some fun and no worrying about the consequences?

That just sounds stupid and irresponsible. It's one thing if you're risking only yourself, but when other people get hurt, it isn't funny anymore.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: Most of the people who commit pranks have thought this. And I have a hard time in believing that you never experienced any of this.

You can choose to believe me or not to, but I cannot recall ever wanting to harm anyone for the fun of it, and I don't know why anyone would.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: I feel as much compassion for the victims as anyone. But I don't let this cloud the fact that the perpetrators are still teens (and therefor they deserve compassion as well).

I'm not quote sure what you mean by "deserve compassion".

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: In high school they put a mirror on the floor to see underwear, so far none of my classmates turned out to be a rapist.

That's immature, but not nearly the same as sharking.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: I get that many sociopaths didn't woke up one morning being a total monsters. I get that they committed crime after crime each time increasing the level of cruelty. Therefor I understand why you worry that if you don't stop them they might become a treat. But that depends on the person as well don't you agree. I mean in my high school they put a mirror on the floor to see underwear, so far none of my classmates turned out to be a rapist, nor mysogynist nor sociopath.
Now tell me why do you think this happened? Because no teacher caught them. So tell me what did they did wrong? Why didn't they turned id rapist or sociopaths or criminals?

Yeah, that was wrong, but
1. It wasn't the same as sharking
2. I never said that sharkers would grow up to be rapists
When I said that sharking was a sociopathic behavior, it was merely an observation. That is, it is a behavior that is antisocial and indicates a lack of empathy. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person in question will grow up to be a monster, but it does mean that sharking has crossed the line from funny harmless prank to something genuinely mean-spirited.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 1:51 am)Darkstar Wrote: I don't even know what the punishment for sexual assault is

It depends on the country, age, circumstances, and identity of both the victim and criminal.

So... if younger people get lighter sentences already, why are we having this discussion? Or were there people who said they should be filleted alive that you're arguing against?

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 1:51 am)Darkstar Wrote: I have made mistakes (though not brushes with the law), and I'm definitely not a perfect role model, but... Wait...? "Mistakes show us who we really are" almost sounds like you're suggesting that when people do antisocial things, it's their true colors showing through , showing the world who they really are. But I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant.

Actually thats exactly what I meant.
If a person rapes a teen isn't he showing us our true colors? If a persona ran over a person ant either left or stays to take the responsibility isn't showing us our true colors?

But doesn't that fly in the face of the notion that these teens aren't really bad people despite doing bad things?

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote: okay I'm gonna post my position so there will be no further misunderstanding.
Because I'm sick and tired of them.

• I don't think that a teen who comits sharking will certainly grow up to be a rapist or a sociopath.
  
• We should be indulgent with teen criminals who commit sharking.

I don't know what you mean here by "indulgent".

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote:

We wouldn't tried them as adults(because they aren't adults)

No! I'm not ignoring the feelings of the victims.

No I'm not saying this acts aren't crimes.

No I'm not saying this crimes stop being pranks.

No I'm not saying this crimes should be unnoticed nor unpunished.

I don think that sending this kids to prison will neither solve the problem nor help them at all.

Okay, I mostly agree with this.

(October 18, 2014 at 3:16 am)Zidneya Wrote:

Yes I care for the teen criminals(because they are still human beings and teenagers).

If by "care" you mean "think they shouldn't be lined up and shot", then yes, I care too. If you mean "boys will be boys so just let them off with a slap on the wrist" then I don't. I think your actual position lies between the two, but I'm having a tad of trouble nailing it down.

I think the crux of our disagreement is on the exact definition of being "indulgent" to the sharkers. There are:

dictionary.com Wrote:adjective
1.
characterized by or showing indulgence; benignly lenient or permissive

merriamwebster.com Wrote:in·dul·gent adjective \in-ˈdəl-jənt\
: willing to allow someone to have or enjoy something even though it may not be proper, healthy, appropriate, etc.

Quote:in·dul·gent
inˈdəljənt/Submit
adjective
adjective: indulgent
having or indicating a tendency to be overly generous to or lenient with someone.

I tend to use the third definition.